◆ The JIL SANDER & RAF SIMONS shopper thread ◆

[hapsical]

Great idea for a thread!

A few Raf-related things I might be able to clear up..


Because something is featured in a magazine editorial it does NOT mean it has been put into production and will hit the shops, because magazines shoot the sample collection (basically the same clothes that appear on the runway) and they never bother to check if the things they feature will be available to buy, partly because they always shoot 6 months in advance of when product arrives in shops. It's a big flaw in the 'fashion system' actually.

This season and last season a lot of the collection did not go into production because Raf split with his production & distribution partner last January. It has been a difficult time for them, as evidenced by the small selection of Raf stock shops have had over the last year, but everything should be back on track next season.



Close-up pictures of the SS12 collection that I took in the show room are on my blog here (scroll down). I'll be posting pics of the FW12 collection after I've been to the show room later this month. Also, I think I have more SS12 pics I could dig out if anyone's interested.



Someone mentioned the Black Palms x Coca-Cola thing being Raf's "downfall" - I wouldn't look at it too seriously. He's obsessed with Diet Coke (he wrote a brief essay about it in a recent Numero Homme) so I'm sure it was done lightheartedly, not as some devious commercial ploy. Also, those who rush to criticize things like the Fred Perry collab forget that designers do have bills to pay, and having your own men's line just isn't that lucrative, unless it's like Hugo Boss (gag).



PS. LN-CC paid me nothing for copy-pasting my blog post and they got my name wrong too

PPS. Regarding Raf staying at Jil Sander / moving to Dior etc. etc. expect news SOON !

 

[andrewgreg]

I perfer raf stay at Jil. Jil is the best place for raf IMO. He moving to Dior is a joke. Jil is modern, Dior is about old couture thing. From Marc Bohan, Ferre to Galliano, they all remains Dior's aesthetic, beautiful, couture, feminine, bold. It's hard to imagine what raf can do in Dior. It would be interesting to see it it really happens

 

[Razele]

Hey its hapsical!

Your blog is really good man, I've been reading old posts lately.

Hope you stick around on SF and post more.

 

[jwjp]

If he went to Dior would he just design the women's side?

 

[hapsical]

If he went to Dior would he just design the women's side?

The last rumour I heard, from someone who works at another LVMH/Dior group fashion house, was that he (or whoever else is chosen) would be given the title of (overall) Creative Director, including Dior Homme - although the implication was the relationship with the mens would be like Alber Elbaz - Lucas Ossendrijver at Lanvin / Marc Jacobs - Kim Jones at Vuitton rather than one designer being solely responsible for both men's and women's.

 

[Razele]

Its literally impossible for him to do worse then KVA

 

[bows1]

One of my new favorite threads to read. Just spent awhile reading almost everything posted here, from _yoo's excellent links to interviews, to hapsical's great post on the 15 years of RAF. Keep posting stuff everyone!

 

[Zeemon]

-------

 

[driveslowk]

great thread, will post some of my favorite jil/raf pieces here soon

 

[sipang]

Here's my take on the whole "Raf is dead" thing, I get the feeling that most people that dimiss it as mere snobbishness or knee-jerk trend-hopping are totally oblivious to or unaware of what made Raf interesting in the first place. It's not so much a matter of liking or hating the recent collections, it's a matter of aknowledging the radical shift that happened a couple years ago and the fact that what made Raf "Raf" has somehow been lost in the process.

So I don't know **** about **** but what are the odds he's no longer designing his own label since moving to Jil?

Can't speak to the internal workings of the label but it's no coincidence that changes appeared after the take over of Jil in 2005-6 and the launch of Raf by Raf the same year. And it's not really surprising either, overlaps and cross-pollination between the two brands were bound to happen at some point and I can see the resulting audience widening playing a part in the shift toward something broader and more accessible, whether it was by design or not.


On these words, I'm off to buy my Master craftsman hoodie

 

[ahtlast]

Quote:
was this white version of the nylon quilted t-shirt ever put into production?
I've yet to find it online, but would most importantly like to try it on.

any spot in London carrying it?

 

[andrewgreg]

I think they produce it. I remember someone said saw it in person. London has a Jil boutique?

 

[ahtlast]

yup, definitely want to have a look there, but with the sales and all, I think I might be too late

 

[GoldenTribe]



I might get either this or this (silver chain seems much easier to pull off than gold), if I can find them on sale, that is!

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

What are the two prices (an original, struck out, and a discounted price) and good god is one of them MSRP? Raf shoes were barely $1000 for fw11 ....

 

[_yoo]



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Great idea for a thread!

A few Raf-related things I might be able to clear up..


Because something is featured in a magazine editorial it does NOT mean it has been put into production and will hit the shops, because magazines shoot the sample collection (basically the same clothes that appear on the runway) and they never bother to check if the things they feature will be available to buy, partly because they always shoot 6 months in advance of when product arrives in shops. It's a big flaw in the 'fashion system' actually.

This season and last season a lot of the collection did not go into production because Raf split with his production & distribution partner last January. It has been a difficult time for them, as evidenced by the small selection of Raf stock shops have had over the last year, but everything should be back on track next season.



Close-up pictures of the SS12 collection that I took in the show room are on my blog here (scroll down). I'll be posting pics of the FW12 collection after I've been to the show room later this month. Also, I think I have more SS12 pics I could dig out if anyone's interested.



Someone mentioned the Black Palms x Coca-Cola thing being Raf's "downfall" - I wouldn't look at it too seriously. He's obsessed with Diet Coke (he wrote a brief essay about it in a recent Numero Homme) so I'm sure it was done lightheartedly, not as some devious commercial ploy. Also, those who rush to criticize things like the Fred Perry collab forget that designers do have bills to pay, and having your own men's line just isn't that lucrative, unless it's like Hugo Boss (gag).



PS. LN-CC paid me nothing for copy-pasting my blog post and they got my name wrong too

PPS. Regarding Raf staying at Jil Sander / moving to Dior etc. etc. expect news SOON !

Hey its hapsical!
Your blog is really good man, I've been reading old posts lately.
Hope you stick around on SF and post more.

Yeah, welcome Hapsical!! As Razele said your blog has always been a pleasure to read, and I'm really enjoying and learning a lot from the "How Fashion Works" series lately (someone was just raving about it in RFT, IIRC). Keep up the good work man and hope you stick around!

Thanks for the clarificatioon re: magazine editorials, and for linking to the ss12 showroom photos you took. The close-ups make a lot of pieces look *much* better than on the runway or in those sevenNY pics I linked to. I'm really digging those chained derbies and the the tees - both the colorblock tanks and those contrast rolled sleeves tees That blue sweater looks awesome too

What are the two prices (an original, struck out, and a discounted price) and good god is one of them MSRP? Raf shoes were barely $1000 for fw11 ....

The struck out price is the pre-order price (and probably official msrp in the US, or at least Seven's own retail price). Then Seven offered a 15% pre-order discount, I think.

The higher price is probably due to the extra design element rather than a price hike (e.g. these fw11 hiking boots were selling at $1585 at park & bond).

Raf retail the US is kinda weird. First you have the much higher US prices relative to EU even putting aside vat deduction (the boots i kopped from mrporter were almost $1100 post nyc tax but the price for the same pair in a different colorway at park is around $650ish post vat-deduction and around $800 on mrporter UK). Then you have the very different prices set by different US retailers (e.g. the same classical derbies were $900 on mrporter, a little over $700 on park & bond). And it's not just this season either, I remember some fw10 raf sneakers were selling on ssense for $600-ish but almost $1000 at other places.