◆ The JIL SANDER & RAF SIMONS shopper thread ◆

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by _yoo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. jwjp

    jwjp Senior member

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    Ah thanks. Were his better collections seen as quite as revolutionary at the time, or is a lot of it hindsight? Like, did people really beast over the collection and buy it up immediately? It seems to me, as someone who has only recently become interested in fashion, that their are plenty of collections in the past (2002 raf, hedi-dior,09 undercover and junya, (i'm sure there are others but that's off the top of my head)) that are seen as really successful and innovative, "game-changing", but their don't seem to me any present-day analogues. Are we just unable to recognise it at the time?
     


  2. Zeemon

    Zeemon Senior member

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    nice thread, i will post photos of my own pieces (i think 10 or 11 items) soon, maybe fitpics

    btw. here is another interview with him, published by german weekly newspaper "die zeit"
    http://www.zeit.de/2011/04/Stardesigner-Raf-Simons/seite-1

    he says that, that he was impressed by the band "kraftwerk" and the book "christiane f. : wir kinder vom bahnhof zoo"
    then they talk about berlin, which is the setting of the book
    and about berlin fashionweek, but he is not sure whether this fashionweek could become relevant internationally.
    they they shortly talk about german designers like jil sander, karl lagerfeld, and wolfgang joop.
    the interviewer asks him if he could imagine living in berlin, raf says that the climate would be too bad
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011


  3. Keoke

    Keoke Senior member

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011


  4. _yoo

    _yoo Senior member

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    ^cool, lvr, oki-ni, mrporter, saks are also starting to receive their ss12 stock, aloharag too but they've yet to post it on their website

    a compilation of recent and forthcoming JIL & Raf pieces as styled by fashion magazines (apologies in advance for those who don't want them lumped together!) mostly culled from this blog



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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011


  5. ggoofer

    ggoofer Well-Known Member

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    Don't plan on ever wearing that sweater.... I stopped by the Jil Sander Chicago store today: retail is $2800 for the short sleeve version. They had one and it did feel amazing (very durable). But at that price I doubt they will be i stock anywhere
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011


  6. _yoo

    _yoo Senior member

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    damn, that's some insane prices. Thanks for the info!
    i looked it up, the only webstore that has it seems to be oki-ni, but it's already sold out (!).
    I'm hoping this one isn't as expensive
    I haven't seen any knit in the AW11 men's collection that costs over $2k, the women's collection seems to have quite a few, but men's knits are all under $1000 as far as i can tell.
    I wonder who else on SF has a 2k JIL knit other than jet haha
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011


  7. PabloDiablo

    PabloDiablo Well-Known Member

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    Price doesn't surprise me at all, especially given the detail of the knit. You don't see that everyday and I am sure even given the outrageous markup it was still probably very costly to make.
     


  8. andrewgreg

    andrewgreg Senior member

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    i don't think it would be very costly to make it. at least, compare to the price.

    I don't know why raf is doing the cheap plastic rain coat thing, burberry did it before.
     


  9. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    That knit is really interesting, I like it - but $2800 is pretty dear.
     


  10. Parker

    Parker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    For anyone who wants a general overview of Raf's work: 15 Years of Brilliance
    Not the best writing, but there are lots of images and videos of his past collections. Some of his shows are just amazing on their own.

    I didn't really follow his work in the past, but I've like his recent collections where he's done more tailored stuff. I know people lambast it for not being as radical as his youthful rebellion stuff, but I think it's kinda subversive and cool in its own way.
     


  11. _yoo

    _yoo Senior member

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    ^thanks for posting that, it was posted on ln-cc too (wonder how much hapsical got paid for that :p). another great source is raf simons redux, someday i must scan my copy and put it up somewhere.

    ^^re: that knit, just realized that it was in tres bien's jil ss12 showroom photo album, not sure if they have picked it up! (but if so, their price should probably be the most competitive among e-stores)
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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011


  12. _yoo

    _yoo Senior member

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    If you're wondering about specific items from Raf SS12 and their price point, Seven NY's now defunct pre-order pages may be helpful (pictorial overview)

    I might get either this or this (silver chain seems much easier to pull off than gold), if I can find them on sale, that is!
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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011


  13. _yoo

    _yoo Senior member

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    Also, I've updated the main post with a more readable list of online stockists, any omission please let us know!

    Also, has anyone saved pictures from the LN-CC Raf Simons Archive Sale? Looks like most links are no longer working...
    I wonder if they deleted those pages because even they feel embarrassed about their prices for certain items :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011


  14. sipang

    sipang Senior member

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    Here's my take on the whole "Raf is dead" thing, I get the feeling that most people that dimiss it as mere snobbishness or knee-jerk trend-hopping are totally oblivious to or unaware of what made Raf interesting in the first place. It's not so much a matter of liking or hating the recent collections, it's a matter of aknowledging the radical shift that happened a couple years ago and the fact that what made Raf "Raf" has somehow been lost in the process. Perspective is everything.

    I personally don't have strong feelings against the 2008-2011 output (the collections as a whole largely left me cold but I still liked some individual pieces) but I do find some legitimacy to the statment. People need to remember that Raf earlier stuff was kind off anti (fashion) establishment, not only the clothing themselves but also in the way of doing things (non professionals and friends used as models, uncommon shows and show venues...) and in the audience targeted. Moreover, the cultural references (mostly musical) invoked in the collections helped create a special connection with that audience, something not unlike empathy.

    "I started my thing not because I wanted to be a designer who was going to sell all over the world in the fashion stores. I just wanted to bring out some kind of language which was meant for me and my environment who didn't feel comfortable with the kind of look that we got presented."

    Now I know this is a somewhat idealized vision of what it really was but I think there's some truth to it and it's key to understanding the backlash. If you take a look at the collections ranging from 1995 to 2005 or a bit later you'll find something that's missing from the most recent collections, there's an idea/ideal rooted in reality, there's a soul (for lack of something less corny), it's not as clean but it's alive. In comparison, 2008-2009-2010 collections appear stiff, sanitized and devoid of anything (btw, do the collections still have titles ?). You'd have to be fucking blind or dishonest to not see the tranformation that occured and it doesn't really matter what Raf says about it or that you love Fall 2010 to bits, it's just not the same thing.

    It's a bit like if Hedi stayed at Dior after 2007 but suddenly decided to do KVA stuff instead, it might not be objectively bad but you might still die a bit inside. Again, perspective is everything.


    In the end though, none of that really matters. People change or get tired, wells of inspiration dry up and that's fine, old Raf is dead new Raf lives on, the vision is dulled but the clothes are still sharp. If you can live with that... :eek:





    And here's an older interview (2004) and an article (2002) to give a bit more context to my rambling.











     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011


  15. 1969

    1969 Senior member

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    So I don't know shit about shit but what are the odds he's no longer designing his own label since moving to Jil?
     


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