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Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - preorder issues, discussion,and resolution.

George Mason

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I see this thread has been busy. I have also been reached out to by AoL regarding returning my pair. I don't think they could've resolved this in a better way. I'm still optimistic about the company despite recent events, and if they do end up making a wholecut shell chelsea boot, hand-welted, I'll be first in line.
Please see my post #1240 in this thread regarding how this could have been better handled/resolved...
 

j ingevaldsson

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As I remember they had seamless corodovan shoes in Milano boutique, some years ago. I could be wrong also.

STefano Bemer also, but I am not sure of it was cordovan, it looked like it.
Seamless wholecuts are common. I'm pretty sure Bemer never made that, they would have done a thing of that for sure. As I say, don't really think it's possible to do it properly, way too many have tried and failed at this stake, so don't think we'll see it either at least done in a good way or with the traditional shell cordovan hides.
 

haloitsme

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Seamless wholecuts are common. I'm pretty sure Bemer never made that, they would have done a thing of that for sure. As I say, don't really think it's possible to do it properly, way too many have tried and failed at this stake, so don't think we'll see it either at least done in a good way or with the traditional shell cordovan hides.
With Bemer, I am not sure. But I somehow remember with Silvano Lattanzi that it was a seamless wholecut cordovan with a price of more than 13.000€.
Like that just with not sewn in the back. Anyhow, I could be all wrong, but who knows. If anyone does that it is certainly Lattanzi ;)
 

clee1982

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13k euro!!!

well is the difficult part the craft or buy and waste enough shell to find the one hide that work?
 

Jmr928

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Maybe it’s just me but a seamless shell Chelsea seems like the boot I buy when I’m completely out of other good ideas hell I’d have to burn through a bunch of not good ideas too before I ended up there.
 

j ingevaldsson

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With Bemer, I am not sure. But I somehow remember with Silvano Lattanzi that it was a seamless wholecut cordovan with a price of more than 13.000€.
Like that just with not sewn in the back. Anyhow, I could be all wrong, but who knows. If anyone does that it is certainly Lattanzi ;)
Yeah well I'd like to see it :) But as I say, maybe it could be done, with that type of Italian cordovan they use which based on the photo there has more of the grain part left (this would give more tensile strength, but as you see on the photos it doesn't have the dense surface of traditional shell cordovan hides), and/or it doesn't look that good since it's not been able to be blocked and lasted properly. That said, now I'm talking a seamless wholecut shell cordovan shoe, a chelsea boot seamless made of regular cordovan would be basically impossible.
 
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Betta

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Nah, the leather part is only thing that decides if it's a wholecut or not, doesn't matter what pattern is apart from that.

Cordovan wholecut chelseas have been tried to do production of a number of times, last in line was Viberg a few years ago, they switched to a regular pattern with side seam after a year or so since fit and look became off on the wholecuts. You always have the same problem, it's too difficult to block the shell well without tearing it, so it's not suitable. You can make a pair or so here or there, as for example Meccariello has and some bespoke makers, but to do it well on a production line is too much of a hassle if you really want it to be good. You saw it on the sample of Archibald's as well, they couldn't manage the blocking properly, you get an instep and front of the ankle that neither look good nor works well on the foot.
Can you elaborate on how the fit and look becomes off on Chelsea wholecuts? Also i've seen a pair of carmina wholecut boots ( The Shell Cordovan, non-Alden Shoe and Boot Thread | Page 339 | Styleforum ) would those behave the same way you are talking about?
 

j ingevaldsson

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Can you elaborate on how the fit and look becomes off on Chelsea wholecuts? Also i've seen a pair of carmina wholecut boots ( The Shell Cordovan, non-Alden Shoe and Boot Thread | Page 339 | Styleforum ) would those behave the same way you are talking about?
Note, I'm not talking about chelsea wholecuts per se, regular calf leather etc have no problems to stretch and be blocked properly for that. I only talk about cordovan wholecut chelseas here.

We can take Viberg's as an example, if you see this wholecut version below you can see how it's rather shapeless along the instep they haven't been able to stretch it enough (if they do it's too big of a risk for tearing) and since it was so loosely blocked and lasted the fit wasn't good.


Due to this, Viberg changed to a pattern with side seams after a year or two, here you can see how much more enhanced the shape is over the instep and front part of the ankle, looks and especially fit much better:



For that Carmina wholecut shouldn't be a problem there, it's lower and also have the lacing so not a large leather part that needs to be blocked, as on a chelsea boot.
 

emptym

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I don't know if Viberg stretches the leather when making a wholecut, but iirc @DWFII doesn't stretch. Rather, he shrinks the leather when blocking. He's posted pics before.
 

j ingevaldsson

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I don't know if Viberg stretches the leather when making a wholecut, but iirc @DWFII doesn't stretch. Rather, he shrinks the leather when blocking. He's posted pics before.
When you block you sort of do both, you need to have a flat piece of leather "small" on one side (vamp) and very "large" on the other side (bottom of the last, back part where seam is). But yes the leather is stretched, and stretched a lot. You can't do a shoe without stretching the leather quite a bit, and the more you need to shape that flat leather piece away from being flat (sort of the whole basic point of shoe patterns is to help shape the leather along the shape of the foot. It's just humans' obsession with aesthetics that made it to much more than that), for example over a high, concave boot vamp, the more you need to stretch it. That's why shell work bad in this case, it doesn't like to be stretched.
 
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vdubiv

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If you ever see me order some bright ass bi color bi material thing in stingray and shark or something just know the seamless shell boot is not far off.
they weren't bright, but you did just miss out on some Shark & Shell boots from Allen Edmonds recently, so maybe the seamless shell is on the horizon?
 

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