CM combinations and silhouettes constructive improvement thread

[breakaway01]

This is the first thread I've created on StyleForum (I think?). The CM side lacks an active thread for people to discuss and critique their own CM outfits from the standpoint of the overall outfit. There have been some really good threads in the past that I suggest you look at if you haven't already.
Whnay.’s Good Taste Thread
Get Foofed
Good Natured Advice Thread

What this thread IS about:

1. discussion about how to combine CM elements (i.e. tailored clothing) into a coherent outfit. For example, cut, texture, color, pattern, levels of formality.
2. overall silhouette and proportions for that individual
3. a sincere desire by people to put better outfits together, not to get likes

What this thread is NOT about:

1. where/what to buy: NO mention of brand names or makers. There are plenty of other places to talk about this, and it biases the critique and discussion. Doesn't matter if your suit came from Henry Poole, Isaia, or JAB: don't tell and don't ask. If someone REALLY wants to know, PM the poster directly to find out
2. nitpicking about details of fit (sleeve too long, sleevehead divot, trouser drape isn't perfect, etc): understandably there is some overlap between fit and silhouette e.g. if a jacket is very short, that also affects the silhouette. But in real life, during the day trousers might get a little rumpled, or a shirt sleeve might not be showing the requisite 1/4", or maybe your jacket doesn't fit you just right. I don't want these details to get in the way of people posting their photos, or to distract people from the real goals of this thread
3. unconstructive or personal criticism: if you don't like something, please say so -- but only as long as you tell us how you'd improve it. Critique the outfit, not the person. Conversely, you can like outfits but it would be even better if you can say something about why you like a particular outfit.
4. defensiveness: if you post an outfit, you're open to critique. As long as it is given in a constructive spirit, take it with humility and an open mind.

Ground rules and expectations:

Posters:
1. Outfits should not be perfect - don't spend an hour arranging everything just so and pressing a sharp crease in your trousers. I think this is often a deterrent to people posting their photos. Remember, we're not here to comment on minor details of fit or presentation.
2. It helps (but not essential) to say something about why you're posting -- are you unsure whether a particular tie works with your outfit? Whether you'd benefit from a more structured jacket?
3. "Boring" is okay as long as you are genuinely trying to improve. I wear pretty basic CM outfits for the most part. You shouldn't feel like you're trying to impress us. On the other hand, if you know what you're doing, don't keep posting variations of the same mid-grey trousers with navy sportcoat look -- push yourself just a little bit. If you are just posting for likes, please go elsewhere.

Commenters:
See above. Remember the golden rule. Be constructive, whether positive or negative.

Since I created this thread, I guess it's on me to go first. Will put something up shortly.

 

[breakaway01]

I intended to get this checked shirt with a semi-spread collar but instead mistakenly ordered it with a button-down collar. I don't usually wear button-down collared shirts with ties. I also have a black knit tie that I don't wear as often as I should. So I thought I'd try pairing them together today.

Besides these elements, I'd appreciate some comment about jacket structure. It "fits" me but I have fairly narrow shoulders and like @dieworkwear I am coming around to the idea that I'd probably look better with a little more structure. There is the slight danger of looking pear-shaped.

Example of "minor" fit issues: My shirt sleeves are not showing enough. Trousers need a pressing. I don't really care.

 

[emptym]

Looks good. I particularly like the jacket cut and fabric.

I have a graph check shirt like that, but double bars. I usually wear it with knit ties too, or w/o tie.

The things I'd do to improve are:
1) a more formal, stitched belt, maybe a little slimmer too.
2) switch the darts on the pants for pleats. WW Chan sometimes does darts like that, but I think theirs are shorter and moved to the sides a bit. If you wanted to keep the dart, maybe try that.
3) Personally, I'd only wear a black knit with black belt and shoes. A slimmer, longer knot would look more proportionate imo.
4) For the watch strap, maybe try one of these from Spiedel. They're a steal on sale. I've been using one for a few months. It's no @DavidLane, but it's decent.
5) I agree that some shoulder extension might be good. The negative belly is slimming, but you're very trim, so maybe straight lapels would be better.

 

[breakaway01]

Looks good. I particularly like the jacket cut and fabric. Who made it, if you don't mind? And is it @kolecho's run of heathered mock Leno? I missed out on that.

I have a graph check shirt like that, but double bars. I usually wear it with knit ties too, or w/o tie.

The things I'd do to improve are:
1) a more formal, stitched belt, maybe a little slimmer too.
2) ditch the darts on the pants and switch for pleats. WW Chan sometimes does a dart like that, but I think theirs are shorter and moved to the sides a bit. If you wanted to keep the dart, maybe try that.
3) Personally, I'd only wear a black knit with black belt and shoes. A slimmer, longer knot would look more proportionate imo.
4) For the watch strap, maybe try one of these from Spiedel. They're a steal on sale. I've been using one for a few months. It's no @DavidLane, but it's decent.
5) I agree that some shoulder extension might be good. The negative belly is slimming, but you're very trim, so maybe straight lapels would be better.

wow thanks. Great thoughts.

Yes I totally agree on the belt. Was not thinking about that all.
Re: black shoes, I only have black captoe oxfords. Those don't feel right with this outfit either. Might finally be time to think about black loafers? Not personally a fan of single or double monks.

I have a hard time tying a longer knot on knit ties. The section where the knot ties is really skinny.

I have a love-hate relationship with the Apple Watch. I use it for 2FA at work all the time so I wear it to work. But I also wear it running so I like the rubber strap. I guess changing straps out is not hard. I like the look of the strap you posted.

Will PM you directly about the jacket.

 

[schraiber]

I intended to get this checked shirt with a semi-spread collar but instead mistakenly ordered it with a button-down collar. I don't usually wear button-down collared shirts with ties. I also have a black knit tie that I don't wear as often as I should. So I thought I'd try pairing them together today.

Besides these elements, I'd appreciate some comment about jacket structure. It "fits" me but I have fairly narrow shoulders and like @dieworkwear I am coming around to the idea that I'd probably look better with a little more structure. There is the slight danger of looking pear-shaped.

Example of "minor" fit issues: My shirt sleeves are not showing enough. Trousers need a pressing. I don't really care.

View attachment 1782490 View attachment 1782491 View attachment 1782492

I think this looks pretty good. I agree that slightly more extended shoulders could work well here, although I don't think you need a ton of padding or roping or anything.

I personally think that a button down collar with a tie is a good look, and it works here. It adds a certain something to fits that I like a lot. I also really like grid checks. So basically I love the shirt.

Agree with the other poster that I'm not a huge fan of the darted trousers. It creates a weird balance issue since it doesn't connect with the crease like pleats do, but sorta looks like pleats. So it's confusing.

 

[breakaway01]

I think this looks pretty good. I agree that slightly more extended shoulders could work well here, although I don't think you need a ton of padding or roping or anything.

I personally think that a button down collar with a tie is a good look, and it works here. It adds a certain something to fits that I like a lot. I also really like grid checks. So basically I love the shirt.

Agree with the other poster that I'm not a huge fan of the darted trousers. It creates a weird balance issue since it doesn't connect with the crease like pleats do, but sorta looks like pleats. So it's confusing.

thanks. Yes. After many years of wearing flat front trousers, I have slowly been moving to single reverse pleats for more recent trousers but it will take a while. I appreciate the input.

 

[schraiber]

I'll throw myself into the mix. Got this suit recently, got some feedback in the style advice forum and decided to keep it and take it to the tailor. I realize charcoal suits are increasingly not useful in today's day and age but I needed one for a specific purpose coming up.

There are minor issues: sleeves need to be shortened slightly more, my pocket square is accidentally over my lapel, probably a few others.

I think a big problem is that the shoes are too light here. I'm not opposed to brown shoes with charcoal like some people might be, but I do feel like they have to be pretty dark to work. These are the Allen Edmonds dark chili color and they read a little darker when not in full sun, but I'm thinking I need to finally bite the bullet and get some black oxfords.

Would love any other critique or comments!

 

[R.O. Thornhill]

wow thanks. Great thoughts.

Yes I totally agree on the belt. Was not thinking about that all.
Re: black shoes, I only have black captoe oxfords. Those don't feel right with this outfit either. Might finally be time to think about black loafers? Not personally a fan of single or double monks.

I have a hard time tying a longer knot on knit ties. The section where the knot ties is really skinny.

I have a love-hate relationship with the Apple Watch. I use it for 2FA at work all the time so I wear it to work. But I also wear it running so I like the rubber strap. I guess changing straps out is not hard. I like the look of the strap you posted.

Will PM you directly about the jacket.

This is a really interesting idea for a thread.

I personally am not crazy about button-down shirts with ties - but that is probably just cultural. If you are going to wear a tie with this jacket I would probably go wider (to match proportions of lapel better), and I would not wear a black one. Maybe a dusty orange madder?

I like the jacket - great fabric as well - but would maybe drop the gorge a little, and extend the shoulder. The trousers are nice, but think high-twist wool would be more congruent with the jacket. Though that would also raise the formality (and I agree with the recommendation of pleats)

 

[R.O. Thornhill]

I'll throw myself into the mix. Got this suit recently, got some feedback in the style advice forum and decided to keep it and take it to the tailor. I realize charcoal suits are increasingly not useful in today's day and age but I needed one for a specific purpose coming up.

There are minor issues: sleeves need to be shortened slightly more, my pocket square is accidentally over my lapel, probably a few others.

I think a big problem is that the shoes are too light here. I'm not opposed to brown shoes with charcoal like some people might be, but I do feel like they have to be pretty dark to work. These are the Allen Edmonds dark chili color and they read a little darker when not in full sun, but I'm thinking I need to finally bite the bullet and get some black oxfords.

Would love any other critique or comments!

Think the suit works pretty well. For a sober charcoal business suit I would probably not have the ticket pocket (that doesn't mean that I haven't had business suits made with them, but I have come to the conclusion that unless you are going for a more dramatic - Nutters, C&M - look, then business suits are better off without them).

The biggest issue - as you identify - is the shoes. They need to be MUCH darker - either very dark oak, or (even better) black oxfords. I would then switch the tie for a navy grenadine and you will look great

 

[breakaway01]

I'll throw myself into the mix. Got this suit recently, got some feedback in the style advice forum and decided to keep it and take it to the tailor. I realize charcoal suits are increasingly not useful in today's day and age but I needed one for a specific purpose coming up.

There are minor issues: sleeves need to be shortened slightly more, my pocket square is accidentally over my lapel, probably a few others.

I think a big problem is that the shoes are too light here. I'm not opposed to brown shoes with charcoal like some people might be, but I do feel like they have to be pretty dark to work. These are the Allen Edmonds dark chili color and they read a little darker when not in full sun, but I'm thinking I need to finally bite the bullet and get some black oxfords.

Would love any other critique or comments!

View attachment 1782588

Thanks for contributing!

I have nothing against charcoal suits, though I think they are a little less versatile than mid-grey. Just got one myself. I think the overall silhouette of the suit looks pretty good on you.

It is hard to tell from the photo but if that is a white shirt, I would have worn black shoes for sure. I also have trouble wearing brown shoes with dark grey suits; agree with ROT that they'd have to be a very dark brown to work well IMO.

Again, it's hard to tell for sure from the photo but I like my solid ties to have a more distinct texture. Personally would lean towards more of a burgundy color; this is verging on a little too red/bright for my own taste.

 

[ValidusLA]

I'll throw myself into the mix. Got this suit recently, got some feedback in the style advice forum and decided to keep it and take it to the tailor. I realize charcoal suits are increasingly not useful in today's day and age but I needed one for a specific purpose coming up.

There are minor issues: sleeves need to be shortened slightly more, my pocket square is accidentally over my lapel, probably a few others.

I think a big problem is that the shoes are too light here. I'm not opposed to brown shoes with charcoal like some people might be, but I do feel like they have to be pretty dark to work. These are the Allen Edmonds dark chili color and they read a little darker when not in full sun, but I'm thinking I need to finally bite the bullet and get some black oxfords.

Would love any other critique or comments!

View attachment 1782588

Think the suit works pretty well. For a sober charcoal business suit I would probably not have the ticket pocket (that doesn't mean that I haven't had business suits made with them, but I have come to the conclusion that unless you are going for a more dramatic - Nutters, C&M - look, then business suits are better off without them).

The biggest issue - as you identify - is the shoes. They need to be MUCH darker - either very dark oak, or (even better) black oxfords. I would then switch the tie for a navy grenadine and you will look great

1) Great thread @breakaway01 !
2) I agree w/ RO. I love ticket pockets in general, but the look and feel of this suit I think I would leave it off for future suits in this vein.
3) I know what you are saying about AE Chili being darker inside, it definitely is, but is probably too light for charcoal. Are you against Black Tassel loafers?
4) Tie - I don't think you have to be in navy grenadine necessarily. I would favor a navy or burgundy pindot maybe!

 

[JohnMRobie]

I'll throw myself into the mix. Got this suit recently, got some feedback in the style advice forum and decided to keep it and take it to the tailor. I realize charcoal suits are increasingly not useful in today's day and age but I needed one for a specific purpose coming up.

There are minor issues: sleeves need to be shortened slightly more, my pocket square is accidentally over my lapel, probably a few others.

I think a big problem is that the shoes are too light here. I'm not opposed to brown shoes with charcoal like some people might be, but I do feel like they have to be pretty dark to work. These are the Allen Edmonds dark chili color and they read a little darker when not in full sun, but I'm thinking I need to finally bite the bullet and get some black oxfords.

Would love any other critique or comments!

View attachment 1782588

Not much to add beyond what the other guys mentioned. It may be the lighting and angle and personal preference but it also appears that your shirt collar may be slightly over powering your tie, at least for my preferences. I have similar problems with some taller collars with longer points that are slightly less spread.

 

[bicycleradical]

Great thread! @breakaway01

For your outfit, I think it looks good. The knit tie makes the button down collar work. I agree with the others that pleated trousers would be better and would give the outfit a little more flair without going overboard.

@schraiber Your suit looks nice. In your case, I think black shoes would look better. Burgundy is another good option with gray. Seeing yours makes me want to get this cut! I remember which one it is from your first post./

I'll throw a photo of mine into the fray. For myself, I am trying learn more about silhouettes. Seeing the photos people post on SF has given me some inspiration and I am trying to learn what works best for me. I have reasonably broad shoulders, short legs, a

nd the hips of a hockey player. This results in most of my jackets being too long and makes it difficult not to have flaring pockets .Any comments are welcome. Thank you, everyone.

 

[ValidusLA]

Great thread! @breakaway01

For your outfit, I think it looks good. The knit tie makes the button down collar work. I agree with the others that pleated trousers would be better and would give the outfit a little more flair without going overboard.

@schraiber Your suit looks nice. In your case, I think black shoes would look better. Burgundy is another good option with gray. Seeing yours makes me want to get this cut! I remember which one it is from your first post./

I'll throw a photo of mine into the fray. For myself, I am trying learn more about silhouettes. Seeing the photos people post on SF has given me some inspiration and I am trying to learn what works best for me. I have reasonably broad shoulders, short legs, a View attachment 1782633 nd the hips of a hockey player. This results in most of my jackets being too long and makes it difficult not to have flaring pockets .Any comments are welcome. Thank you, everyone.

Couple comments:

I think its really hard to judge a fit pic when you have both arms up like this and crossing your chest. Taking a self is rough for sure, but a one armed shot or even better a remote pic would be better. Having your arms up hides your chest, flares the jacket out (especially with it buttoned) etc.

Also pic is very dark, but overall it seems like the fit is pretty good to me.

Couple things that pop out to me:
1) With a collar this spread out, I would tie a fuller tie knot. I know FIH is de rigeur around here (and I generally agree), but I think its too insubstantial with a collar that wide spread.
2) French cuffs always a winner +1.
3) I notice that instead of a dimple, it seems like your tie is rolling over on itself. I've had this problem often and usually correct by making sure the wide blade comes through level when pulling through the knot.

EDIT: As @bicycleradical says - @schraiber - Another options is oxblood. I actually really like an oxblood oxford with a charcoal suit, and in many ways view it as the optimal solution. That said oxbloods vary. AE's oxblood is quite red. Vass' oxblood museum is very dark. I would prefer the later generally.

 

[schraiber]

Think the suit works pretty well. For a sober charcoal business suit I would probably not have the ticket pocket (that doesn't mean that I haven't had business suits made with them, but I have come to the conclusion that unless you are going for a more dramatic - Nutters, C&M - look, then business suits are better off without them).

The biggest issue - as you identify - is the shoes. They need to be MUCH darker - either very dark oak, or (even better) black oxfords. I would then switch the tie for a navy grenadine and you will look great

Thanks for contributing!

I have nothing against charcoal suits, though I think they are a little less versatile than mid-grey. Just got one myself. I think the overall silhouette of the suit looks pretty good on you.

It is hard to tell from the photo but if that is a white shirt, I would have worn black shoes for sure. I also have trouble wearing brown shoes with dark grey suits; agree with ROT that they'd have to be a very dark brown to work well IMO.

Again, it's hard to tell for sure from the photo but I like my solid ties to have a more distinct texture. Personally would lean towards more of a burgundy color; this is verging on a little too red/bright for my own taste.

1) Great thread @breakaway01 !
2) I agree w/ RO. I love ticket pockets in general, but the look and feel of this suit I think I would leave it off for future suits in this vein.
3) I know what you are saying about AE Chili being darker inside, it definitely is, but is probably too light for charcoal. Are you against Black Tassel loafers?
4) Tie - I don't think you have to be in navy grenadine necessarily. I would favor a navy or burgundy pindot maybe!

Not much to add beyond what the other guys mentioned. It may be the lighting and angle and personal preference but it also appears that your shirt collar may be slightly over powering your tie, at least for my preferences. I have similar problems with some taller collars with longer points that are slightly less spread.

Great thread! @breakaway01

For your outfit, I think it looks good. The knit tie makes the button down collar work. I agree with the others that pleated trousers would be better and would give the outfit a little more flair without going overboard.

@schraiber Your suit looks nice. In your case, I think black shoes would look better. Burgundy is another good option with gray. Seeing yours makes me want to get this cut! I remember which one it is from your first post./

I'll throw a photo of mine into the fray. For myself, I am trying learn more about silhouettes. Seeing the photos people post on SF has given me some inspiration and I am trying to learn what works best for me. I have reasonably broad shoulders, short legs, a View attachment 1782633 nd the hips of a hockey player. This results in most of my jackets being too long and makes it difficult not to have flaring pockets .Any comments are welcome. Thank you, everyone.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I agree that a navy tie would be nice here, especially if it had either a pattern or some texture to add some visual interest. I'll keep that in mind as I build out more of a tie collection, as I actually have very few.

I'll also look into some black shoes. I'm inclined toward just finally get a pair of black oxfords, but tassles aren't a bad idea.

@Jmr928 I'm curious what you mean by overpowering the tie? I just genuinely don't know what I'm looking for here