Ongoing Bespoke Projects

[Crispyj]

Paone makes more sense if you’re traveling to Napoli.

I take back my suggestion for Ciardi. I was thinking you were in London. Ciardi / zizolfi are Napoli tailors for international clients (you’re paying for convenience of travel & international marketting of the product - someone (you) is paying for Simon crompton’s free suit). Whereas paone is more of a Napoli tailor for people who travel to Napoli.

Another option is Pirozzi (mentioned a few pages back), but Pirozzi di nunzio is for international, Pirozzi di mimmo is for local.

Another option is keeping an open mind and asking people who are in Napoli for a recommendation.

What kind of bullshit are you typing about international marketing and convenience of travel?

Your paragraph completely disregarded the history of Ciardi and Zizolfi. Saying they are tailors for international clients is a huge disrespect.

You should stick with Dalcuore, fitting for international clients like yourself.

 

[jonathanS]

What kind of bullshit are you typing about international marketing and convenience of travel?

Your paragraph completely disregarded the history of Ciardi and Zizolfi. Saying they are tailors for international clients is a huge disrespect.

You should stick with Dalcuore, fitting for international clients like yourself.

Ask yourself: how many locals order from zizolfi, Ciardi, Dalcuore, Pirozzi, Ambrosi, solito, etc.?

There are plenty of good tailors in Napoli. I think zizolfi and Ciardi are quite good. I’ve posted previously about this history of Vincenzo attolini, Angelo blasi & Roberto (I’m blanking on his last name). You can look back, it’s an interesting history.

Dalcuore has a well marketed history too, just like Ciardi. I fell for it, and wont again. Haha. And that was 6 years ago, when the only other traveling tailor options for Napoli was Solito - even Formosa had stopped traveling - man those were the dark days. But learn from my mistakes.

Paone has a good history as well: paone was the head cutter at Rubinacci for a long time. Just because a tailor’s “history” isn’t well told on the forums doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I don’t think zizolfi / Ciardi are better or worse than paone. I can tell you that zizolfi charged significantly less before the Omast guy got involved. Did the product get better for the price increase? Or did the international marketing get better? Ciardi experience a similar price increase, as did ripense in Roma. I think they’re all quite good tailors, but if you’re traveling to Napoli & price sensitive, I don’t know why they’d be your first pick.

I was just having a conversation about this with a friend who isn’t on these forums & has been ordering bespoke in Italy for the past 20 years. He told me I might know of more tailors than he does because the internet isn’t what it was back then - he relied upon word of mouth to find his tailors. The old fashion way (eg he hadn’t heard of Gianni seminara) but had previously ordered from liverano, Guida etc.

The difference though is now, everyone is an expert because they read a few articles on permanent style. Not saying permanent style is bad, but you have to take some of it with a grain of salt. I roll my eyes when I read something that is said word-for-word the same in permanent style & the rake or other online publications. (The most recent example was a well-respected Asian tailor was trained in Milan, but I have a friend who was in a pattern drafting class in Milan with the well-regarded tailor & that was the extent of his Milanese training.)

I think the most important thing is, if you can, garments in person and getting a feel for if you like the garment. In lieu of that, looking at photos. Going bespoke is a tricky experience, because style is very personal. I hate to say it, but it’s an expensive hobby and the best way to figure out which tailor you want is to figure it out on your own. It’s why these forums are littered with bad bespoke experiences.

Start with any number of tailors: paone, zizolfi, Ciardi, Pirozzi (either), and see how you like it. Maybe send them a note and let them know you’re interested in learning more but you’re undecided on who to use. And go from there. (I can caution you against Dalcuore, however.)

 

[tdang]

I see, thanks! How much time is that usually spread over? 1 month+?

I haven’t had my second fitting with Zizolfi yet because I haven’t been back to Italy, but on my first time seeing them they were willing to offer a first fitting within 3-4 days of taking my measurements (provided it’s a cloth they have available).

 

[twuthetiger]

Was thinking about seeing zizolfi on his nyc trunk. Does he speak English? I think some of the Italian tailors are a bit hard to talk to in terms inquiries regarding fabrics… my Italian is very broken

 

[jonathanS]

Was thinking about seeing zizolfi on his nyc trunk. Does he speak English? I think some of the Italian tailors are a bit hard to talk to in terms inquiries regarding fabrics… my Italian is very broken

I think he’s the best for Neapolitan tailors that travel to New York. Man, it sucked in 2017/18 when I started. I believe he travels with the filmmaker who speaks English. I think he does something with leffot too (the filmmaker’s rtw brand is carried by leffot).

 

[Texasmade]

Was thinking about seeing zizolfi on his nyc trunk. Does he speak English? I think some of the Italian tailors are a bit hard to talk to in terms inquiries regarding fabrics… my Italian is very broken

If any foreign tailor is doing trunk shows in America, they're going to be able to speak English or have an interpreter.

Foreigners know that most Americans only speak 1 language and they few that speak 2 are going to most likely be speaking Spanish and English.

 

[Crispyj]

Was thinking about seeing zizolfi on his nyc trunk. Does he speak English? I think some of the Italian tailors are a bit hard to talk to in terms inquiries regarding fabrics… my Italian is very broken

Gianluca helps run the trunkshow. He's got a great collection of vintage fabrics as well. Don't worry about language barrier.

 

[tdang]

I know L&L has raised some eyebrows as of late regarding their pricing, but every time I slip a jacket on I start thinking about my next order… The heart wants what it wants 😹

Here’s one I haven’t posted - DB in vintage windowpane woolen cloth.

 

[kashmir]

Ask yourself: how many locals order from zizolfi, Ciardi, Dalcuore, Pirozzi, Ambrosi, solito, etc.?

There are plenty of good tailors in Napoli. I think zizolfi and Ciardi are quite good. I’ve posted previously about this history of Vincenzo attolini, Angelo blasi & Roberto (I’m blanking on his last name). You can look back, it’s an interesting history.

Dalcuore has a well marketed history too, just like Ciardi. I fell for it, and wont again. Haha. And that was 6 years ago, when the only other traveling tailor options for Napoli was Solito - even Formosa had stopped traveling - man those were the dark days. But learn from my mistakes.

Paone has a good history as well: paone was the head cutter at Rubinacci for a long time. Just because a tailor’s “history” isn’t well told on the forums doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I don’t think zizolfi / Ciardi are better or worse than paone. I can tell you that zizolfi charged significantly less before the Omast guy got involved. Did the product get better for the price increase? Or did the international marketing get better? Ciardi experience a similar price increase, as did ripense in Roma. I think they’re all quite good tailors, but if you’re traveling to Napoli & price sensitive, I don’t know why they’d be your first pick.

I was just having a conversation about this with a friend who isn’t on these forums & has been ordering bespoke in Italy for the past 20 years. He told me I might know of more tailors than he does because the internet isn’t what it was back then - he relied upon word of mouth to find his tailors. The old fashion way (eg he hadn’t heard of Gianni seminara) but had previously ordered from liverano, Guida etc.

The difference though is now, everyone is an expert because they read a few articles on permanent style. Not saying permanent style is bad, but you have to take some of it with a grain of salt. I roll my eyes when I read something that is said word-for-word the same in permanent style & the rake or other online publications. (The most recent example was a well-respected Asian tailor was trained in Milan, but I have a friend who was in a pattern drafting class in Milan with the well-regarded tailor & that was the extent of his Milanese training.)

I think the most important thing is, if you can, garments in person and getting a feel for if you like the garment. In lieu of that, looking at photos. Going bespoke is a tricky experience, because style is very personal. I hate to say it, but it’s an expensive hobby and the best way to figure out which tailor you want is to figure it out on your own. It’s why these forums are littered with bad bespoke experiences.

Start with any number of tailors: paone, zizolfi, Ciardi, Pirozzi (either), and see how you like it. Maybe send them a note and let them know you’re interested in learning more but you’re undecided on who to use. And go from there. (I can caution you against Dalcuore, however.)

What makes you say that about Dalcuore? Curious.

 

[jonathanS]

What makes you say that about Dalcuore? Curious.

dalcuore is probably one of the largest houses in Napoli. Far larger than zizolfi or Pirozzi (those 2 would be my recommendations for Napoli if you’re in the us relying on trunk shows). I called them the Anderson & Sheppard of Napoli. Were I to order in London, for that style, I’d go to Tom Mahon or Steven Hitchcock as well.



Unlike our keyboard warriors above, I’ve actually visited these sartorias. In theory, their size should make them more consistent, but I think something is lost with larger operations. I respect their tradition and maestro Gigi Dalcuore. If you want a full story, feel free to dm me.

 

[C&A]

Ask yourself: how many locals order from zizolfi, Ciardi, Dalcuore, Pirozzi, Ambrosi, solito, etc.?

There are plenty of good tailors in Napoli. I think zizolfi and Ciardi are quite good. I’ve posted previously about this history of Vincenzo attolini, Angelo blasi & Roberto (I’m blanking on his last name). You can look back, it’s an interesting history.

Dalcuore has a well marketed history too, just like Ciardi. I fell for it, and wont again. Haha. And that was 6 years ago, when the only other traveling tailor options for Napoli was Solito - even Formosa had stopped traveling - man those were the dark days. But learn from my mistakes.

Paone has a good history as well: paone was the head cutter at Rubinacci for a long time. Just because a tailor’s “history” isn’t well told on the forums doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I don’t think zizolfi / Ciardi are better or worse than paone. I can tell you that zizolfi charged significantly less before the Omast guy got involved. Did the product get better for the price increase? Or did the international marketing get better? Ciardi experience a similar price increase, as did ripense in Roma. I think they’re all quite good tailors, but if you’re traveling to Napoli & price sensitive, I don’t know why they’d be your first pick.

I was just having a conversation about this with a friend who isn’t on these forums & has been ordering bespoke in Italy for the past 20 years. He told me I might know of more tailors than he does because the internet isn’t what it was back then - he relied upon word of mouth to find his tailors. The old fashion way (eg he hadn’t heard of Gianni seminara) but had previously ordered from liverano, Guida etc.

The difference though is now, everyone is an expert because they read a few articles on permanent style. Not saying permanent style is bad, but you have to take some of it with a grain of salt. I roll my eyes when I read something that is said word-for-word the same in permanent style & the rake or other online publications. (The most recent example was a well-respected Asian tailor was trained in Milan, but I have a friend who was in a pattern drafting class in Milan with the well-regarded tailor & that was the extent of his Milanese training.)

I think the most important thing is, if you can, garments in person and getting a feel for if you like the garment. In lieu of that, looking at photos. Going bespoke is a tricky experience, because style is very personal. I hate to say it, but it’s an expensive hobby and the best way to figure out which tailor you want is to figure it out on your own. It’s why these forums are littered with bad bespoke experiences.

Start with any number of tailors: paone, zizolfi, Ciardi, Pirozzi (either), and see how you like it. Maybe send them a note and let them know you’re interested in learning more but you’re undecided on who to use. And go from there. (I can caution you against Dalcuore, however.)

Quite a good & useful post! Although I wouldn’t expect much from sending the tailors a note telling them you are interested in their services. I highly doubt you’ll get any usefull responses.

Where you mention Attolini and Blasi, you were maybe looking to mention Schiraldi (who is always on Mimmo Pirozzi’s lips - the one of 197 Via Chiaia) although I’m pretty sure his first name wasn’t Roberto.

 

[aristoi bcn]

The Roberto may be Roberto Combattente. Both Renato Ciardi and Antonio Panico trained under him.

 

[lordsuperb]

I know L&L has raised some eyebrows as of late regarding their pricing, but every time I slip a jacket on I start thinking about my next order… The heart wants what it wants 😹

Here’s one I haven’t posted - DB in vintage windowpane woolen cloth.
View attachment 2158193

I think they make a better single breasted jacket for you.

 

[jonathanS]

The Roberto may be Roberto Combattente. Both Renato Ciardi and Antonio Panico trained under him.

Yes, that’s right. I thought Ciardi was a pupil of blasi. I’d have to look it up.

And then there are trousermakers which is an interesting story as well. And waistcoat makers too. In Napoli, everything is divided.

Quite a good & useful post! Although I wouldn’t expect much from sending the tailors a note telling them you are interested in their services. I highly doubt you’ll get any usefull responses.

Where you mention Attolini and Blasi, you were maybe looking to mention Schiraldi (who is always on Mimmo Pirozzi’s lips - the one of 197 Via Chiaia) although I’m pretty sure his first name wasn’t Roberto.

I think you’re right, in that there are other lesser known maestros. Those are the big maestro names that people know of on the internet. But if you google a name like guillio Castiello - he was also a maestro of that same generation & you won’t find anything about him. Castiello was a maestro who worked with Vincenzo attolini when they were both at Rubinacci.

There are so many lesser-known maestros that people don’t know of. I think that’s the charm of the Napoli journey. Which is why I say, if you go to Napoli, order from someone you find here. It’s also why, if you look at the history of caraceni Roma, the youngest brother originally tried opening a shop in Napoli. But ended up in Roma because there were too many napoletano maestros.

But also, don’t be afraid to order by asking a stranger who you like their jacket. Talk to people in Napoli. I’m excited to return to Napoli. I’m envious of OP who gets to spend a month or 2 in Napoli.

 

[C&A]

The Roberto may be Roberto Combattente. Both Renato Ciardi and Antonio Panico trained under him.

Or it may be the greatest of all Neapolitan masters, Roberto MARARO formerly known to the world as Mohamad Ayoubi. lol