Mod to Suedehead

[Kingstonian]



Just to get off the politics. Think I may of posted this a few hundred pages ago on here...the cutting was kindly donated by Della a original skinhead girl.
Willesden is a area next to Kilburn...with a overlap..as some Kilburn and Willesden lads went to the same schools....The Willesden had a large mob of hard lads..who often caused havoc around NW London.
Just to add both those Pubs that those lads drank in was balldozed years ago...one other thing worth mentioning Trogan records had their main offices across the road in Neasden Lane.

School dances were soft targets. I remember a particular hooligan family in Harrow that liked to start trouble at school discos.

 

[Botolph]

I'm in Australia and they call the British "Poms" and Americans "Seppos"(short for "septic[tanks]", a weird contraction from the Cockney rhyming slang).

Seeing as politics permeate almost everything else, it's not a susrprise that it comes up in an internet forum discussing a large group of kids whose heyday was 40+ years ago, with people who were and weren't there. Context, setting, and background make for a more informative and interesting read.

Enjoying most aspects of this discussion! Great stuff, people.

 

[browniecj]



Just to add my opinion. Been awhile since I've been here. Really surprised how race and politics got mixed up in this otherwise informative discussion board about sartorial sense.

Its all a matter of context and the history behind those terms. "****" "*****" "*****r" "***" or "Yid" were historically used for derogatory purposes, whereas "Yank" or "Brit" didn't have the same connotation and they don't provoke the same emotions of lynchings, or slavery (especially for blacks when "*****r" is used) because the way I see it the word "Brit" was often used as a term of endearment or an abbreviated word for British, nothing more. There are racial and derogatory terms for White people in general, but Brit or Yank is not one of them. "resident of Britain" could be a derogatory term depending on context, but I believe that term originally was a nickname for British sailors. In America white people invented all sorts of derogatory terms for other white people. "Mick" and "racist term for people of Polish descent"were all offensive terms as a result of American nativist sentiments against Irish and Polish mmigrants in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

I have seen "Brits Go Home" and "Yanks Go Home" plastered on Walls,so hardly terms of endearment."Limeys" was a derogatory term first made by American Sailors about the British Navy`s use of Lemons or Limes.It then became a name for all British."Ghosts","*****" and other Names have been used,so every one has a name for everybody else-and it is always ,mainly, to do with History.


Great Photos Bunty
I remember seeing the Skinhead Photo come out originally.By then it was old Fashion.

Back in the 60s,we used to meet up with some of the Willesden Mob and go around Soho etc.To say things happened unexpectedly would be an understatement

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



With Volumes 2 and 3....

*runs away, screaming hysterically.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



.
Exactly. Id have thought everyone would know it was a tongue in cheek comment.

Anyone with any sense knows that in genral, society was racist in those days. No one thought anything of calling an Asian a P*** or a Caribian a N*****. Not something people do these days and it is frowned apon and quite rightly so. But i bet all of you originals and most people on here, Hand on heart have used those words in the past. Id call you a liar if you havn't as it was common language used in the 60s and 70. As was C**** for chinese people especially restaurants and takeaways. Why is that any different, but i knows loads of people who still use that word these days and think its ok.

Surely the P word is only a shortended word for Pakistani same as Aus for Australia, *** for Japan, States for United States of America. Just my take on it, surely it should be the way and reasoning you say it for an offence to be taken.

It was a bit different for me, having been brought up in a cricket-playing family (in Lancashire where, like in Yorkshire, it wasn't exclusively a middle-class thing), and having rubbed shoulders with Asian and Caribbean players. I can remember using the 'N' word once and being ashamed of myself for doing so. I can remember using the long word 'Pakistani', along with 'Asian' and 'Black', and I can certainly remember other people using P*** and N*****, so yes, it was widespread.

[BTW anyone who was at York last year will remember my telling a story about a cricket match in Fleetwood with a scratch team made up from the West Indian Test squad... Something happened that had a whole crowd of West Indians helpless with laughter, but which just couldn't happen these days. I'll leave you with that teaser.]

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



There was ****-bashing it is true.

BUT there were not so many Asians around in the late 1960s. Expulsion of Ugandan Asians was in 1972 and that is when they colonised Wembley. Before that Indian kids you met would often have Christian names.

Like my mate Lloyd Beramsingh - Punjabi-British, short hair, no beard, no turban.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Brits is an abbreviation the same as **** was and ***** is.So why is ok for People to call us that Name but it is offensive to call the other two?As with the word *****r,Whites cannot call them that,but the,Black Youth can call themselves ******,and it is looked upon as "Street Cred".I was told off for calling an American a Yank(on another Forum)but there have been Film Titles with that word in it.I think People have become oversensitive.We older one had Fathers who fought for this Country,for Democracy-now we have Fascists telling us what to think and do.

I don't mind being called a 'Brit' - in fact the word goes back a couple of thousand years - because that's what I am, being mixed English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh heritage. But again it's all down to the context and the way it's said. I used to object to the way irish nationalists used the word, because they used it as a term of contempt, and that prevented me from listening to their point of view.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



To me there is no difference between a Right Wing Nazi and a Left Wing Marxist-yet one is demonised and one is hero worshipped.Do not forget,the Communists killed more Jews over the years(but so-called intellectuals ignore that small fact).

To be fair, Colin, you would be hard pressed these days to find anyone who is an apologist for Stalin & Co. We're getting a bit off-topic, though.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



I don't like the term Yank because quite frankly I'm not from the eastern seaboard aka New England and none of my ancestors have lived there since the 1700's.

Someone should have told George M Cohan



Sorry - going way off topic now!

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Just to get off the politics. Think I may of posted this a few hundred pages ago on here...the cutting was kindly donated by Della a original skinhead girl.
Willesden is a area next to Kilburn...with a overlap..as some Kilburn and Willesden lads went to the same schools....The Willesden had a large mob of hard lads..who often caused havoc around NW London.
Just to add both those Pubs that those lads drank in was balldozed years ago...one other thing worth mentioning Trogan records had their main offices across the road in Neasden Lane.

I could be wrong, Roy, but I don't remember this one. Thank Della - this will be great to have for the press-cutting section of the book.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



I've seen the line drawing of this photo in the famous newspaper article, also the same couple without their sheepskins, but we must of had this one? Apologies if we have.

10th October 1969


White City Youth Club, London, 1968

Usual question, Bunty - why's got the copyright?

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



skinheads in the evening press - may 1972 (!!!!!)

An Irish newspaper, no?

 

[catchourbreath]

To me there is no difference between a Right Wing Nazi and a Left Wing Marxist-yet one is demonised and one is hero worshipped.Do not forget,the Communists killed more Jews over the years(but so-called intellectuals ignore that small fact).

If you're referring to Stalin and Co they're far closer to Fascism. Just like National Socialism had little to do with Socialism. A large chunk of initial communist thinkers were Jews, so I doubt they'd write self-extermination into their ideology.

The problem I always came across with Skinhead was regardless of the time period dodgy politics always run rampant. The Look can be ace, music awesome, but far too much stupidity on the political end,

 

[browniecj]

Catchourbreath-Good morning to you.Yes there were Jews who were involved in the original Communist Uprisings.To begin with everything went well.Fast forward to Stalin`s time and he starts getting paranoid about a "Zionist State".So expulsions started and trips to the Gulags(which many,many did not come back).The numbers are unobtainable but it is estimated that far more perished over the years.1980/1990,(still Communist)mass migration happened with many Jews leaving Russia.

Were you about in the 60s,do you know the Politics of that decade?Or is it something you have read in a Book?Skinheads were not interested in Politics(in the 60s),they knew Life as it was.It was later when Skinheads got involved Politically-so get your Facts right before calling someone stupid.

 

[roytonboy]

Sorry, I think it's my fault we went off topic for a while there .......

Just on the subject of names - Is it offensive to call someone from Liverpool a Scouser? Some people claim it is, others not. It's all in the delivery - If I'm talking to a Liverpudlian and I say "Scouse humour is different to Manchester humour" then that wouldn't be a problem. On the other hand if I was to say, "That's the trouble with you f*cking Scousers, your'e not as funny as you think you are" then that would be a different matter! They call us Mancs. They refer to United and United fans as "The Mancs", that makes me laugh though, as most of 'em aren't from Manchester! I particularly like the term "Mickey Mouser" which is used in Manchester, (rhymes with scouser)

Similarly the word "****" was originally used as a shortened version of Pakistani (as in Aussie for Australian) It was the way it became used that made it derogatory. Unfortunately my mother (aged 89) still uses the word, almost inevitably prefixed by the word "bloody". Our American members will relate to this - I watched a T.V. Series on the American Civil War in which a southerner claimed that until his 20's he had never heard the term "Yankee" without the word "Damn" if front of it, so much so that as a child he thought it was all one word!