The official CELINE thread

[Mulan]

Light weight - zero break in is very on brand for any fashion forward company but let's not pretend margins don't play a role in their production choices. You're buying an image after all. And with that comes an emphasis on finishing over internal construction quality.

 

[Fuuma]

Plastic is cheap, light, easy to produce, can be stored almost indefinitely and not sensible to hygrometry.
One can imagine that the heels are produced en masse in China at a ridiculous cost.

Big companies love cash more than quality, for exemple when Prada Group bought Church’s the quality hits the floor, they used binded leather which is very stiff and unpleasant to wear.

But some shoemakers still do real shoes with excellent leather. Marsell for example is outstanding quality.

There's 50% chance I am misremembering but didn't Marsèll (same factory) make some footwear for old Dior Homme?

As for the discussion about lightness, this can be acomplished without the cheap cost cutting that Céline engages in, the way they produce shoes cannot even be compared with a shoemaker like John Lobb. Their biggest weakness seems to be QA for leather goods so maybe just buying in person/not being afraid to return can help. In the end I have a bunch of designer footwear hovering around the same construction level that I'm fine with so I get the point of buying what you like.

 

[RedVelvetWounds]

If you are gaslighting yourself into thinking you should be paying SL/Dior prices for boots with a plastic heel because leather would've been too heavy you gotta stop skipping leg day.

 

[MickeyPunch]

I thought everyone here was aware that when buying designer stuff you’re paying for, well, design, personified in a big name designer, Hedi in this case. Also designer clothing has a huge overhead: stores in the poshest/most expensive areas in town, runway shows, ads, celebrities, photoshoots… you’re paying for that, too. And quality? Yeah a bit of that too, of course; they can’t put out stuff with H&M quality and materials because customers have certain expectations, but no one should expect “top quality” from these brands, just optimal one. And they absolutely save money where they can, they’re in for the money.

So yeah, Hedi’s boots can’t be compared (in terms of quality) to Carmina, Crockett & Jones or the like, let alone Edward Green or John Lobb. His leather jackets can’t be compared to Real McCoy ones. His jeans to Iron Heart. Or his glasses to Jacques Marie Mage.

And you know what? That’s fine. I think in the real world quality design tends to get snubbed; maybe because it’s kind of abstract/ethereal. But I think people here understands the importance of design (and fit, which is part of it).

For example, I don’t really care for most of Hedi’s stuff, a lot of it looks completely generic to me. But some of his boots… oh man, especially the ones he did at SLP… I have a pair of the tan suede jodhpurs and I swear they are the most beautiful boots ever, and the reason I keep an eye on the stuff he makes. I have boots from traditional shoemakers that cost me twice or three times as much and are objectively miles ahead in terms of quality and I love them, but they are not as pretty (they’re quite different styles anyway so not really comparable).

So enjoy the stuff you like and don’t overthink the quality stuff, just be aware quality is a small fraction of what you’re paying for. And again, that’s completely fine.

 

[MickeyPunch]

Also, something about the “made in X” tag: it doesn’t mean anything when talking about quality. As someone famous said, in China they can make anything you want, in any quality you want. iPhones are made there, ffs, and they are top notch technology; trust me, they can make your blazer too just fine if the brand is willing to pay for it. I already mentioned the chinese-italian sweatshops or the legal loopholes to get the “made in Italy” tag (finishing touches).

 

[Gianni963]

So yeah, Hedi’s boots can’t be compared (in terms of quality) to Carmina, Crockett & Jones or the like, let alone Edward Green or John Lobb. His leather jackets can’t be compared to Real McCoy ones. His jeans to Iron Heart. Or his glasses to Jacques Marie Mage.

They are at least a dozen of high fashion brands that make way higher quality leather jackets than Real mcCoy with finer materials or even better jeans than Iron Heart.
High Fashion or designer brands does not mean always inferior or optimal quality. We should not exaggerate and generalize.

 

[ScrubbyDoo]

If you are gaslighting yourself into thinking you should be paying SL/Dior prices for boots with a plastic heel because leather would've been too heavy you gotta stop skipping leg day.

But if I work out legs I won’t be able to fit into my Celine skinny jeans😿… vicious cycle.

 

[parade]

Quality is very subjective. Trying to ever position is as some objective truth is just being incredibly myopic.

Binded leather is not inherently bad. Another more common term used outside of Church's is "polished leather". Water just slides off, so it is great for rain. Retains a polished look effortlessly because of its coating, which means minimal upkeep. It is "plug and play".

"Excellent" leather to you might be what Marsell uses, but I much prefer ss13's Reina Lux which is incredibly thin, pliable, smooth, buttery, and feels like slipping on a lambskin glove onto your feet. I just have enough sense to not proclaim that Reina Lux is the be all end all best leather in the world. It is just my own personal preference.

Style is another personal preference, so more power to you if you like Marsell's designs. Personally, it looks revolting to me. Caring about the leather more than the actual look of the shoe is putting the cart before the horse.

Big companies love cash more than quality

No one is going to disagree with this, but the extreme position that "everything is bad" because of this is just losing the plot. It is not worth dying on this hill. There are pros and cons to everything.

 

[parade]

The whole mythos around Dior Homme, and putting it on a pedestal, makes me laugh. People forget willfully, or purposefully, that the same old Dior Homme uses stacked leather heel covers to wrap the plastic in their fw05 heel boots, and criticize Hedi's Saint Laurent and CELINE for doing the same.

What's worse about Dior Homme was the rubber soles that disintegrate.

✂️ you are not serious people

32 seconds · Clipped by volft · Original video "Succession - You are not serious people." by adreon

www.youtube.com

 

[RedVelvetWounds]

But if I work out legs I won’t be able to fit into my Celine skinny jeans😿… vicious cycle.

Man you're right. I was so hyped about the Saint Laurent D24 jeans because they fit very similar to the Hedi era D02 jeans. Unfortunately for me I've been doing a lot of running an cycling and now I can barely fit into them.

Life is a constant cycle of suffering from success.

 

[MickeyPunch]

They are at least a dozen of high fashion brands that make way higher quality leather jackets than Real mcCoy with finer materials or even better jeans than Iron Heart.
High Fashion or designer brands does not mean always inferior or optimal quality. We should not exaggerate and generalize.

Re. jackets: Hermès, fair enough. I’m really curious about the other dozen. Comparing the leather is a bit of apples to oranges as these repro brands will go for tough and stiff leathers (mostly horsehide) whereas designer stuff is mostly sof lamb. But they are made in the way desigber brands fans wish their items were made: by a small number if artisans in Japan, whereas the reality is probably closer to a sweatshop (just maybe not a chinese or bangladeshi one).

As for jeans, I’d be truly amazed if there’s a single designer brand out there using natural indigo, for example.

 

[MickeyPunch]

Binded leather is not inherently bad.

Binded leather is literally scrapes of leather glued together.

 

[slpldr]

Reality of sweatshops is Italy is something absolutely mind-boggling, and fascinating, TBH. Friends of mine talked to some Bangladeshis there. AFAIK, there is a set of Italian 'employers' who hire Bangladeshi guys officially, organise a legal invitation for visa, and once they are in, they are free to do what they want, but they have to pay back (in cash) their fake salary, tax expenses and some premium (like 20% of their income) to a fake Italian employer, and they employer will continue to support their residence permits. After several years they can officially get a citizenship, and that's what they usually do. Sweatshops mainly create bag superfakes, which are sold across Italy to tourists on the streets. Chinese try to keep their sweatshops in Italy completely independent, and try to sneak other Chinese on the same passport (!) - very different situation from hired Bangladeshi guys. Chinese 'made in italy' fakes are the lowest quality ones.

There are also high-end 'sweatshops' when official factories are run at night with a complete avoidance of taxes, workers get salary in cash, they hire local Italians, like relatives, factory workers who want to do overtime, etc. This is where original luxury clothes are usually made, and if you have connections, you can get tagless designer stuff made during nightshifts for very cheap.

 

[youwhat]

 

[slpldr]

The other thing to keep in mind - Italians adjust the quality of the same item depending on the export location. Same exact brand items sent to, let's say, USA, might be composed partially from sweatshop stuff, but for Italy and France they would keep the best quality ones. Hell, they may even collect data on particular boutiques and their clientele, and send low quality items to locations where customers are not discerning enough.