Mod to Suedehead

[sivanpunk]

It must be my Age,or something,but I think I have finally sussed out-how "Hard Mods"(then eventually Skinhead) came about.It would fit in with the Skinhead Ethos.I am reading a Book(Fictional) called"Here Come The Nice".In the Story,(set in Modern Britain)the main Character is Researching Carnaby Street-and especially John Stephens.Now it starts off by going back to 1964.A Character who is just called the "Face" is standing outside The "Scene"Club in Ham Yard.The "Face"ends up like a time traveller-but not just yet.Are you following me so far?The "Face" is the epitome of a Top Mod.He buys the latest Clothes etc.,and he knows his way about "Up West".One of the things he is doing(because he believes this is what a"Face" should do)is go with pretty Male Mods,and "Rent Boys".This is just a Story!!!

The Historical Background is very sharp and well researched.There are a number of things that have really got me thinking.John Stephens came from Glasgow(he was Gay).He started up his Tailoring Business to cater for a mainly Gay Clientel.He moved to bigger Premises around in Carnaby Street.This much is Fact.What is thought provoking is-a lot of his Male Assistants supplemented their Income by being "Rent Boys" in Piccadilly.In the 60s,the "Dilly" was known as the "Meat Rack".Being 14 at the time I just assumed it was where Prostitutes hung out,but it was a "Rent Boy"pick-up area.They would do their "Business" downstairs in the Gents.Police would go undercover and be on the look-out ,because Homosexuality was illegal then.Mods had started wearing Eye-liner and to some degree Lipstick.I am not saying all the Mods were Gay,but I think(especially in the West End)a high proportion were.As the years rolled on,the Clothing and Styles got more effeminate and this is when I believe more and more Mods rebelled against this.The Clothing became more Masculine,Boots were worn to show this off to effect.Coloured Shirts etc.,were discarded.In real Terms this was Mod shrugging off the Gay Element.
Funny how years later,The Gay Movement adopted the "Skinhead Look".

that's interesting

 

[sivanpunk]

good to see you back M-o-M.

 

[Yankee]

[quote name="browniecj
Funny how years later,The Gay Movement adopted the "Skinhead Look".[/quote]


Makes sense that a combo of mod becoming too swishy, upper crust and literally gay led to hard mod.
Interesting that glam took off at all among former skins in the 70s, since it seems to be based on the effeminate mod thing pushed to the extreme.


Aside from the 80s mega-sussed plastic skinhead look getting adopted by actual gays, At least in the US, the whole trad thing is sometimes viewed as pretty "gay" by scruffy types who think caring about fit and style or trying to look smart and not paramilitary is effeminate. Pretty funny when you think about it, some people will always find something to ***** about.

 

[Ed Vaughan]



It must be my Age,or something,but I think I have finally sussed out-how "Hard Mods"(then eventually Skinhead) came about.It would fit in with the Skinhead Ethos.I am reading a Book(Fictional) called"Here Come The Nice".In the Story,(set in Modern Britain)the main Character is Researching Carnaby Street-and especially John Stephens.Now it starts off by going back to 1964.A Character who is just called the "Face" is standing outside The "Scene"Club in Ham Yard.The "Face"ends up like a time traveller-but not just yet.Are you following me so far?The "Face" is the epitome of a Top Mod.He buys the latest Clothes etc.,and he knows his way about "Up West".One of the things he is doing(because he believes this is what a"Face" should do)is go with pretty Male Mods,and "Rent Boys".This is just a Story!!!
The Historical Background is very sharp and well researched.There are a number of things that have really got me thinking.John Stephens came from Glasgow(he was Gay).He started up his Tailoring Business to cater for a mainly Gay Clientel.He moved to bigger Premises around in Carnaby Street.This much is Fact.What is thought provoking is-a lot of his Male Assistants supplemented their Income by being "Rent Boys" in Piccadilly.In the 60s,the "Dilly" was known as the "Meat Rack".Being 14 at the time I just assumed it was where Prostitutes hung out,but it was a "Rent Boy"pick-up area.They would do their "Business" downstairs in the Gents.Police would go undercover and be on the look-out ,because Homosexuality was illegal then.Mods had started wearing Eye-liner and to some degree Lipstick.I am not saying all the Mods were Gay,but I think(especially in the West End)a high proportion were.As the years rolled on,the Clothing and Styles got more effeminate and this is when I believe more and more Mods rebelled against this.The Clothing became more Masculine,Boots were worn to show this off to effect.Coloured Shirts etc.,were discarded.In real Terms this was Mod shrugging off the Gay Element.
Funny how years later,The Gay Movement adopted the "Skinhead Look".

A northern (English) expression: '...there's now't so queer as folk' - and why not?

Nothing - especially when it involves historical thinking, re: fads trends and fashions - is ever as clear-cut as some would have us believe.

Even the language, of people 'in the know', (ostensibly 'queer') in London, particularly, in the Fifties and Sixties, was something many of us, not a part of it, would not have had a clue about.

The popular - at the time - radio show: 'Round the Horn' (sic), was awash (pun intended), with references to those people who were, to use common parlance, 'light on their loafers', or a tad effette, was a mystery to most mortals. And, had it been identified, at the time, by the powers-that-be at 'Auntie" BBC, it would not have been tolerated.

I refer, of course, to: Polari - http://chris-d.net/polari/

Of course, I am in no way suggesting that everyone - or even a substantial minority - of young Mods (men and women) were in any way homosexual... but, there must have been a good number who were, and I'm sure they made an impact on fashion, lifestyles and the overall way of life for many young people.

But you knew that.

 

[browniecj]

As a Footnote to what I have written.In the 70s,exSkinheads started growing their Hair long ang wearing Patterned Shirts etc.When Bowie,Bolan etc.,came along it was Glam Rock etc.The Fashions went effeminate again.I know ,in 72,I had a Lacy (See through) Shirt.History was repeating itself-on the "Hard Mods".Again you had a "back-lash",when Punk came along.Remember standing outside the "Duke Of Edinburgh" in Upton Park,in the very early 80s,waiting for a Woman Friend.I happened to look in to a Shop Window(as you do) and saw my reflection.I had on White Shoes,Baggy, multi coloured Silk Shirt,Large Check Trousers and Blonde Streaks in my Hair.I thought"`ere we go again!!!

 

[Lasttye]

I was at a Skinhead meet yesterday we was chatting about Marc Bolan, Ride a White Swan came out in July 70, Which sort of finished the Skinhead scene in London, I was saying my first Heavy Rock album i bought was Deep Purple In Rock, which came out June 70, I remember when Chelsea won the FA Cup in 70 I was wearing a Maroon Harrington that day, A month later i bought the above Rock Album.

 

[chickNcoop]

I've been moving a lot more traditional and smart lately since hitting my 30s, more than ever before, and there's great info here. The San Francisco traditional scene has been getting me out again, it's very vibrant, smart, good revival bands and reggae parties every couple of weeks. Still catch oi shows when I can as well, a couple of weeks ago was a huge weekend for bands, people were flying in from across the country.

Hey, I'm in San Francisco too, which club nights have you checked out? Have you been to the Saturday Soul Nights at Elbo Room?

I

 

[Brideshead]



I was at a Skinhead meet yesterday we was chatting about Marc Bolan, Ride a White Swan came out in July 70, Which sort of finished the Skinhead scene in London, I was saying my first Heavy Rock album i bought was Deep Purple In Rock, which came out June 70, I remember when Chelsea won the FA Cup in 70 I was wearing a Maroon Harrington that day, A month later i bought the above Rock Album.

I had a similar life-changing experience in the summer of 1970. Went to stay in Clacton with a few mates and it was at the ballroom in Butlins that we first saw a bunch of guys that had really started to embrace the new look. They were Chelsea supporters. They all had longer hair, slim fitting shirts (one was even lacy) and slightly flared trousers. Most people there still stuck to a broadly skinhead style, but we could see which way the wind was blowing....
I felt a sense of excitement but also of loss in a way – as I have no doubt said before!

 

[Brideshead]



As a Footnote to what I have written.In the 70s,exSkinheads started growing their Hair long and wearing Patterned Shirts etc.When Bowie,Bolan etc.,came along it was Glam Rock etc.The Fashions went effeminate again.....I thought"`ere we go again!!!

This has, of course, been going on in one form or another since at least the Middle Ages.

I imagine most of you will be familiar with Diana de Marly’s excellent 1985 work ‘Fashion for Men – An Illustrated History’. In it, de Marly sets out the history of men’s clothing in a wider social context.



When I first read her book I was struck especially by the opening remarks:
‘History shows that human society swings between the male and female principle, so that some periods consider themselves to be masculine, while others regard themselves as more feminine. This redefinition of identity affects the way society determines its ideal males….’ She proceeds to trace the history of men’s fashion from the Middle Ages right up to the mid-1980s and along the way examines Renaissance Man, Neo-Classical Dandies, the buttoned-up Victorians and the blurring of sexual identity in more recent times.

What I have never really ‘got’ is the fact man in the 70s was something of a strutting peacock and yet the economic times were often dire. You would expect the opposite – and I guess that is where punk eventually comes in.

Perhaps we will in the future return to the style of Richard Sackville 3rd Earl of Dorset (1613) taken from the cover of Diana de Marly's book!

 

[Ed Vaughan]



This has, of course, been going on in one form or another since at least the Middle Ages.
I imagine most of you will be familiar with Diana de Marly’s excellent 1985 work ‘Fashion for Men – An Illustrated History’. In it, de Marly sets out the history of men’s clothing in a wider social context.

When I first read her book I was struck especially by the opening remarks:
‘History shows that human society swings between the male and female principle, so that some periods consider themselves to be masculine, while others regard themselves as more feminine. This redefinition of identity affects the way society determines its ideal males….’ She proceeds to trace the history of men’s fashion from the Middle Ages right up to the mid-1980s and along the way examines Renaissance Man, Neo-Classical Dandies, the buttoned-up Victorians and the blurring of sexual identity in more recent times.
What I have never really ‘got’ is the fact man in the 70s was something of a strutting peacock and yet the economic times were often dire. You would expect the opposite – and I guess that is where punk eventually comes in.
Perhaps we will in the future return to the style of Richard Sackville 3rd Earl of Dorset (1613) taken from the cover of Diana de Marly's book!

Possibly, in fact, I'm already saving up to buy a cartwheel ruff, doublet... and silk garters.

A cotton chemise is also a distinct possibility.

 

[browniecj]



This has, of course, been going on in one form or another since at least the Middle Ages.
I imagine most of you will be familiar with Diana de Marly’s excellent 1985 work ‘Fashion for Men – An Illustrated History’. In it, de Marly sets out the history of men’s clothing in a wider social context.

When I first read her book I was struck especially by the opening remarks:
‘History shows that human society swings between the male and female principle, so that some periods consider themselves to be masculine, while others regard themselves as more feminine. This redefinition of identity affects the way society determines its ideal males….’ She proceeds to trace the history of men’s fashion from the Middle Ages right up to the mid-1980s and along the way examines Renaissance Man, Neo-Classical Dandies, the buttoned-up Victorians and the blurring of sexual identity in more recent times.
What I have never really ‘got’ is the fact man in the 70s was something of a strutting peacock and yet the economic times were often dire. You would expect the opposite – and I guess that is where punk eventually comes in.
Perhaps we will in the future return to the style of Richard Sackville 3rd Earl of Dorset (1613) taken from the cover of Diana de Marly's book!

Um,never read it.

 

[browniecj]

Another thing that also interests me(though slightly off Subject),is the loss of various Languages,spoken by different Groups.In the 60s,Skinheads had their own "Speak"of which there was an Element of Rhyming Slang:- Bovver/Aggro,Screw(as in,who are you Screwing Mate?),Sorts,Strides,Whistles etc.,being the main ones.The Cockney Rhyming Slang has all but died out(there is a newer Version,but that is dying also),replaced by a cross between American Slang and Jamaican Patois.This is not confined to London.Polari was spoken between Gays(in the 50s and 60s-in the West End).In the Butchering Trade-up to the 70s-there was a mixture of Back Slang and Rhyming Slang.You would speak this all day long,whilst you worked in the Shop.In fact a lot of Managers would speak nothing else.Words like Dilo Woc(Old Cow),Dilo Dratsab(Old Bastard)-these would let the other Assistants know you had a very awkward Customer.You would smile at the Customer and say this,without them knowing what you are on about.You would come unstuck if the old Man had been a Butcher ,Duke Of York(Pork) etc.,were popular sayings.With my Father being a Butcher all his Life,we would slip into this at home.My Mother would tell us to shut-up and speak English!!!.I would expect a lot of other Trades did this-during the time(but now,sadly, forgotten).

 

[herzzreh]

Solovair available in U.S. now...

 

[Brideshead]



Possibly, in fact, I'm already saving up to buy a cartwheel ruff, doublet... and silk garters.
A cotton chemise is also a distinct possibility.

Codpiece too? Actually, no that is soo sixteenth century come to think of it!

 

[Ed Vaughan]



Codpiece too? Actually, no that is soo sixteenth century come to think of it!

Codpiece? Now we're getting into Clockwork Orange territory.