Mod to Suedehead

[Kingstonian]

This one is good one if you are ever in Putney Fulham
http://www.classiccafes.co.uk/rivercafespecial.htm

 

[browniecj]



This one is good one if you are ever in Putney Fulham
http://www.classiccafes.co.uk/rivercafespecial.htm

Looks like a traditional Pie and Mash Shop In the early to mid 60s,it was the Coffee Bars then the Cafes took over.Thw Jukeboxes were always full of the stuff you liked-if the Owner was "clued up".

The Beatles were a Marketing Commodity in the early 60s,once People had bought the Wigs etc.,it died out.The Stones came on the Scene and everything changed-Cuban Heels and Rock and Roll were out,and American Rythmn and Blues in.To the Mods I knew,they never related to the Beatles(I know on other Forums they have discussed whether the Beatles were Mod-er No!).To say that the Beatles influenced Fashion until the late 60s,is probably a dream that a Scouse Music Writer thought up.Their Music maybe(Sgt.Peppers) but not the rest.

 

[Studio1st]

Sam Smiths pubs are worth a look if you've never been in one - because they make and sell all (and i mean ALL) their own drinks - all the cola, lemonade, tonic, the stout, the bitter,the lager, etc.no brand names. And they all have hokey 'made up' brand names - they're not labelled 'Samuel Smiths cola', etc
This at least was the case when i last remember going in one a couple of years ago - i hope it hasn't changed.

Quite a strange experience the first time you see it,

Crew neck t-shirt under the shirt is nothing to do with the UK - but it is proper Ivy. Given Yankmod is not trying to be a skinhead there's no reason he shouldn't do it.

FAO Browniecj and Lasttye: I popped into Village Gate in Guildford yesterday, the owner was in there and we had a brief chat. He didn't actually refer to himself as an old 'business partner' of John Simons but he did work in the Ivy Shop when he was 18 (now 64) - not sure how long their association was. The current stock leans toward 'country gent' - he says by autumn its going to go in a more trad Ivy direction but nothing like as strict as J.Simons.

 

[Lasttye]



Sam Smiths pubs are worth a look if you've never been in one - because they make and sell all (and i mean ALL) their own drinks - all the cola, lemonade, tonic, the stout, the bitter,the lager, etc.no brand names. And they all have hokey 'made up' brand names - they're not labelled 'Samuel Smiths cola', etc
This at least was the case when i last remember going in one a couple of years ago - i hope it hasn't changed.

Quite a strange experience the first time you see it, 

Crew neck t-shirt under the shirt is nothing to do with the UK - but it is proper Ivy. Given Yankmod is not trying to be a skinhead there's no reason he shouldn't do it.  

FAO Browniecj and Lasttye: I popped into Village Gate in Guildford yesterday, the owner was in there and we had a brief chat. He didn't actually refer to himself as an old 'business partner' of John Simons but he did work in the Ivy Shop when he was 18 (now 64) - not sure how long their association was. The current stock leans toward 'country gent' - he says by autumn its going to go in a more trad Ivy direction but nothing like as strict as J.Simons.

Studio First...I think their was a connection with J Simmons....The lad you was talking too was probably the owner of a previous shop in Guilford called Harrigtons....I bought some clobber out of there years ago, I thought his shop was better than the Ivy Shop Richmond before it closed down early 80s.

 

[McDermott]

on the subject of ivy....i think skinhead has something to do with ivy, but ivy nothing to do with skinhead..if that makes sense.

on the subject of cafes.,. I can full reccomend the shithole that is :





ANTONIOS cafe - Being from Leeds but going to manchester quite a bit (always a soul doo on every weekend without fail) i can fully endorse this timewarp 70s style cafe, rang by a flat nosed hard polish/ukraine/eastern europe (?) Antonio. Located just outside picadilly station. Considering the amount of **** this cafe most get at a night, i for one, would not mess. It looks like the kind of place where they keep a hard blunt bat with nails in it behind the counter. And Antonio just looks hard.






The breakfast (?) is the best thing youll ever have after dancing none stop at a all nighter etc and your clothes are disintegrating due to 4 bucket loads of sweat. Got to love a proper greasy spoons.

(photo of breakfast ripped from some guys blog who bloggs breakfasts he eats apparently, hope he doesnt mind.)

 

[Ed Vaughan]

(photo of breakfast ripped from some guys blog who bloggs breakfasts he eats apparently, hope he doesnt mind.)
[/quote]You looking at my breakfast?

 

[McDermott]

(photo of breakfast ripped from some guys blog who bloggs breakfasts he eats apparently, hope he doesnt mind.)

You looking at my breakfast?

[/QUOTE]


you know what people are like now...
they all want credit for photos, who took the photo of the breakfast, where it was took, what day it was..what the weather was like...or they all start sueing for copyright.
The best breakfast i get is a greasy spoons opposite my work, where she makes me : cup of tea, 2 slices toast, 4 eggs, 4 rashes bacon, 2 sausages, 2 hash brown, beans, mushrooms, tomato and a black pudding. £4.

Cooked breakfasts and proper beer !!! thats what Britain is all about...!

 

[Lasttye]

Spot on McDermott..Some of us knew about Ivy...But over in Ivy League America they knew fcuk all about us London Skinheads. Two of my older mates was so obsessed with Ivy they would spend a fortune buying American clobber from Austins here in London.
I have had a life long obsession with American Ivy ever since.

 

[Gsvs5]



Spot on McDermott..Some of us knew about Ivy...But over in Ivy League America they knew fcuk all about us London Skinheads. Two of my older mates was so obsessed with Ivy they would spend a fortune buying American clobber from Austins here in London.
I have had a life long obsession with American Ivy ever since.

It,s the same with Soul music.I work with predominantly Black guys from Newark,of all ages.I ask them about different artists from the past and they are clueless.I was having a conversation with a guy who Is a jazz nut and I mentioned Weather Report.There were a group of others who looked at me bewildered,when the guy I was talking to said "these cats won't know who your talking about man"
There are a lot of things here that have shattered my illusions.

 

[yankmod]

on the subject of ivy....i think skinhead has something to do with ivy, but ivy nothing to do with skinhead..if that makes sense.

Well said McDermott.Succinct.I like the breakfast as well.

 

[yankmod]

Looks like a traditional Pie and Mash Shop

In the early to mid 60s,it was the Coffee Bars then the Cafes took over.Thw Jukeboxes were always full of the stuff you liked-if the Owner was "clued up".

The Beatles were a Marketing Commodity in the early 60s,once People had bought the Wigs etc.,it died out.The Stones came on the Scene and everything changed-Cuban Heels and Rock and Roll were out,and American Rythmn and Blues in.To the Mods I knew,they never related to the Beatles(I know on other Forums they have discussed whether the Beatles were Mod-er No!).To say that the Beatles influenced Fashion until the late 60s,is probably a dream that a Scouse Music Writer thought up.Their Music maybe(Sgt.Peppers) but not the rest.

I agree with you browniecj.The Beatle's were a little old to be Mods.They did wear the clothes cause the clothes were cool.The whole world eventually adopted the look.Like you say the Beatles advertised the look (along with the rest of the british invasion) I think the only genuine (and original) Mod in the british invasion was Charlie Watts

 

[browniecj]



on the subject of ivy....i think skinhead has something to do with ivy, but ivy nothing to do with skinhead..if that makes sense. on the subject of cafes.,. I can full reccomend the shithole that is : ANTONIOS cafe - Being from Leeds but going to manchester quite a bit (always a soul doo on every weekend without fail) i can fully endorse this timewarp 70s style cafe, rang by a flat nosed hard polish/ukraine/eastern europe (?) Antonio. Located just outside picadilly station. Considering the amount of **** this cafe most get at a night, i for one, would not mess. It looks like the kind of place where they keep a hard blunt bat with nails in it behind the counter. And Antonio just looks hard. The breakfast (?) is the best thing youll ever have after dancing none stop at a all nighter etc and your clothes are disintegrating due to 4 bucket loads of sweat. Got to love a proper greasy spoons.

(photo of breakfast ripped from some guys blog who bloggs breakfasts he eats apparently, hope he doesnt mind.)

I was in that Café just after Christmas-after meeting Little Queenie and Ancillotti for the last Fri. night at the Twisted Wheel.You don`t need a Bat,there is an old Woman there-who is quite lethal

 

[browniecj]



I agree with you browniecj.The Beatle's were a little old to be Mods.They did wear the clothes cause the clothes were cool.The whole world eventually adopted the look.Like you say the Beatles advertised the look (along with the rest of the british invasion) I think the only genuine (and original) Mod in the british invasion was Charlie Watts

Charlie Watts always was very smart.Yes he was a traditional Mod.Apparently his Record Collection was quite something then.
The Beatles became mainstream-even Mums and Dads started liking them .My Mum did not though,she liked Mick Jagger(I think if she had been younger,she would have been a right raver!!! ).As it was,Mum liked all the Records that were bought-if we were not there,she would put them on herself.How did we know about this-my Dad used to moan continuously



I know I have had the Ivy Shop Experts say it was not the case,but Simons advertised his Ivy Shop as being "American" Style why would he call the shop that name,if not???I still like some of the Ivy Look.

 

[roytonboy]

I'll try to put the photos in..... When I was 17, It Was A Very Good Year

1960-1963

The early 60s – Searching for something

Beatniks, ‘Trad Jazz’ the remnants of ‘skiffle’, Ban the Bomb, these were all influences on teenagers at the time. I’m sure many were searching for some kind of identity (again, anyone know any better out there?) Some of these were seen as ‘intellectual’ or something of interests to students but none the less I remember my sister at the age of 14 wearing an anorac and a ‘Ban The Bomb’ badge in 1962 (to be replaced by the suade jacket and ski pants of the mod girl 2 years later!) Of course to many the Rock ‘n’Roll look still prevailed or the ‘New Latin’ look of Italian Jackets and Cuban Heeled boots (or a mixture of the 2).

​

This all changed when the Beatles emerged in 1963 and Britain became the most ‘Fab’ place on earth for a year or three. This was Beatlemania and very soon became mainsream culture – fringed hair, tailored suits (collarless ‘Beatle’ suits) ankle boots with heels, polar necked sweaters, with skirts for the girls gradually getting shorter, not yet truly ‘mini’.Whilst the Beatles were undoubtedly leaders of fashion up until the late sixties, this was not a look that you ‘belonged to’, it was just something that was happening. Until Easter 1964. This was the weekend when the newspapers and telivision carried reports of ‘trouble’ between rival groups of youths at Clacton - the Mods and the Rockers. The effect of this was almost instantaneous and by the following Bank Holiday in May it seemed as if the whole of Britains working class youth had split itself into one or other of the two camps and there was trouble at a number of resorts involving hundreds of teenagers. I can remember, as a 9 year old, mock fights in the playground at Byron Street school between the ‘Mods’ and the ‘Rockers’, such was the impact of these events.



1964- 1968

Rockers

There were Rockers in Royton (quite a few actually) though I don’t recall that many motorbikes. This was the ‘tough’ look of the lads who worked in the mills (remember them?!?). Still into Rock ‘n’ Roll, hair style had hardly changed since the late 50s. Did they have a favourite ‘caff’ in Royton where they would all meet? (the sort of place where the daughters of ‘respectable’ families were forbidden to go!) Ages of Rockers would be 16 up to possibly early 20s and their big thing was the ‘bike’- speed (doing a ‘ton’- 100mph). Rocker girls wore heavy make up, back combed hair, either ‘biker gear’ or short skirts (a bit like Cher on a bad day!) and generally looked a bit ‘slutty’ (though if any of you are reading this I’m sure you were nice girls really!) The Rocker look hardly changed through the sixties but they all wanted to project a tough, macho image, which many of them were prepared to live up to.​

​

The Mods


The Mod ‘look’ had started to grow up in the early 60’s in London, but probably was quite unknown anywhere else until the Bank Holiday disturbances of early 1964. The major difference with Mod was that it was an ever evolving cult, styles changed, haistyles came and went and musical preferences switched in the endless search to be ‘with it’ (though actually the true Mods wanted to be ahead of it!). The media coverage brought thousands of kids into the Mod fold, and of course the highlighted trouble brought a new kind of mod, not the dandified, (to the Rockers, effeminate) sharp suited stylists of its origin, but the masses of working class kids who were happy to dress in Levis, Fred Perry’s and suede ‘desert boots’, mount a scooter and go looking for the action. Image was everything to the Mod and everything had to be ‘right’ – the right clothes, with the right labels, not just any old scooter – Lambrettas were the order of the day in Royton, with the right ‘decorations’. Of course not everybody had a scooter. For a start you had to be 16 to ride one, and there weren’t that many in Royton.
Lots of kids aspired to be Mods however and the high street shops catered for their tastes. Some styles remained throughout thou, Parkas, Levis and 3 button, narrow lapel jackets (very 60s). Mods could be aged from 15 upto about 20 though most were 16 or 17. Pop culture both lead and was influenced by Mod Style which evolved from this kind of look in 1964




#

Through to this kind of look in 1966-67










The search for the new lead to different music styles being adopted through the years, R & B, Ska (or Bluebeat as it was known), British Beat groups and Soul, whatever was seen to be cool and could be danced to. The Mod years were really 1964-1966 though people were still refered to as Mods as late as 1968.

Next time – Mod gives birth to the hippy and skinhead.


THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE!!

 

[roytonboy]

When I Was 17, It Was A Very Good Year…….​

1967 –1969

‘Hippies’ and the like…..


In 1967 the ‘whole world’ was swept by Flower Power – “Peace and love, man” . Funnily enough, it never really caught on in Royton! I can remember one of our teachers at the end of term bringing the record ‘San Francisco’ in to play as if she was really ‘hip’. Some of the girls in our class at Royton and Crompton were wannabe hippies – Beverly Gibbons came to school with a small bell round her neck – and were well into Cat Stevens and the like but the whole thing never took hold – just a bit of a fad really (in my opinion!) What it did though was create a scism in the Mod culture. Some Mods did lean a little towards this look and the emerging types of music, partly inspired initially by the Beatles during the ‘Sgt. Peppers’ stage. Frills on shirts, paisley shirts (and ties!) and flares became common in ‘mainstream’ fashion. Some trendies were to be seen walking the streets of Royton in ‘Afgan’ coats (which, for our younger readers, was a goatskin coat with the wool left long to hang out of the sleeves and bottom hem.) Hair got longer – this really was the one time when it could be claimed “You can’t tell which are the lads and which are the girls!” – and as a consequence facial hair became more popular. Musically the ‘hippy’ type music mutated into Rock (the Who, Cream, Hendrix) which took many Mods with it and ‘Underground’ or ‘Progressive Rock’ (Lead Zeppelin, Deep Purple) which also appealed to some Greasers, who had carried on the Rocker image.

Greasers


Continued the look of the Rockers with the addition of some aspects of 60’s fashion, longer hair, fringes. Whether they referred to themselves as ‘Greasers’ or ‘Greebos’ I’m not sure, as both were names used by others in a not very complimentary way.





I don’t recall that many motorbikes in Royton and other clothing was worn along with biker gear. Green or Camo American combat jackets were worn, all styles and colours of jeans and heavy working boots (known then as ‘greebo’ boots!) with thick socks rolled down over the tops. This was a quite widespread look for the ‘tough’ teenager of the time and your average football hooligan of this period was as likely to be dressed in a combination of these clothes as he was to look like a predecessor of the skinhead. The Greaser cult continued through until at least 1972, adopting some aspects of rock culture (Harold Flynn in his brown, fringed jacket) and Hells Angel look – sleeveless denim jacket over leather. At Royton and Gravelhole Youthclubs pairs of Greebos could be seen doing the ‘death sway’ dance with each other (could be 2 girls, 2 lads or 1 of each!) to some rock track (or maybe Status Quo?)


Late Mod, Early Skinhead.

The move towards the Hippy look was never going to suit the type of Mod to whom style still mattered. Some Mods, particularly in the Cities, had always been football supporters and frills and kaftans were never going to fit in there! Many Mods never left their values and Soul Music, Scooters and smart clothes were still the order of the day. The look that emerged in this period started with the Mod Surf Jacket (a type of thin bomber jacket), worn with levis and brogues or possibly trainers in 1967, the hair being a short ‘Mod Cut’, through needle cord Wrangler jacket and jeans a year later, gradually being replaced by denims in the same style. Girls could have a short ‘Julie Driscoll’ cut or other fringed hairstyle. The Mods of this period still rode scooters and wore parkas. Jackie’s Ballroom in Shaw was a popular venue at this time. Royton lads in this era included Brian Parkinson, Ricky Zervanovic, Ken Swaby and Dave Rabbich. Interesting to note that though they all remained friends (Ken Swaby moved away, I think) Ricky became a rock fan, growing his hair and wearing flared, patched jeans whereas Brian (‘Perky’) and Dave became skinheads. Dave, in particular was a real leader in the field, being one of the first 2 Skinhead supporters of the Latics (both of them Royton lads). He dressed in bleached denim jacket and jeans and steel toed commando boots. His proud boast was that he rode ‘the biggest scooter in Oldham’ a Lambretta SX 200, re-bored to give it a 225cc engine, complete with chrome bars, mirrors and lights. He paid the price too, as he was the target of a number of attacks by greasers. As aspiring young skins aged 13 and 14 we would walk up the street with him as he recounted tales of away trips with his beloved Latics but, on seeing yet another 3 or 4 greasers coming, he would send us home to prevent us getting battered whilst he attempted to take them on alone!





Late Mod/Early skinhead with Mod mates - see the join?


Next time – Skinheads, Smoothies and Suedeheads.