Mod to Suedehead

[Get Smart]



Page 42 re-copying
Page 40 re-'Peanut' comment
Page 46 re-three blokes

nice one Alex!

to expand slightly, editted a bit for content, for those who dont have Elms' book

p40 "What little digging has been done suggests that the original skinheads were out of East London, possibly the Mile End gang, who followed West Ham.....Certainly when it happened to Reggie they weren't even called skins. When my mother shook her head and asked what this new stylistic abomination was known as, Reggie said that he was a 'peanut', the first label applied to this look. Really, he was a pared-down, proletarian mod"

p 46-7 "One day I recall opening the door of our house and three guys were standing there, asking for my brother Reggie. The three chaps were almost identically attired, each in a three-button, 2-piece suit, all of them in the latest two-tone tonic mohair, a special weave which gave off contrasting sheens of different hues as the cloth moved: navy and rust, petrol blue and bottle green, airforce grey and silver. The jackets were a little longer than a mod would have worn them, fitted and waisted, flaring slightly to form a tight middle, split by a single 18 inch vent. All were adorned with silk hankies shaped to a point. The trousers were single pleat, but cut narrow in the leg, ending perhaps an inch higher than Savile Row would suggest, to reveal socks that were either red or white. Their shirts were all crisp cotton poplin, with button down collars, the neat Ivy League style, probably bought at the famed Ivy Shop in Richmond. Button-downs were absolutely mandatory throughout this era.....Their footwear was of course immaculate. Either brogues....or Royals, which were also known as smooths.....Two of them had on Crombies, woolen navy gentleman's topcoats with a fly front and possibly a black velvet collar. .....The remarkable level of sartorial exactitude which some, admittedly few, top ranking skinheads displayed was relatively rare, although any self respecting skin would have a whistle, a pair of brogues and a mock Crombie.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Thanks Alex and Jason

 

[Brideshead]



nice one Alex!

to expand slightly, editted a bit for content, for those who dont have Elms' book

p40 "What little digging has been done suggests that the original skinheads were out of East London, possibly the Mile End gang, who followed West Ham.....Certainly when it happened to Reggie they weren't even called skins. When my mother shook her head and asked what this new stylistic abomination was known as, Reggie said that he was a 'peanut', the first label applied to this look. Really, he was a pared-down, proletarian mod"

p 46-7 "One day I recall opening the door of our house and three guys were standing there, asking for my brother Reggie. The three chaps were almost identically attired, each in a three-button, 2-piece suit, all of them in the latest two-tone tonic mohair, a special weave which gave off contrasting sheens of different hues as the cloth moved: navy and rust, petrol blue and bottle green, airforce grey and silver. The jackets were a little longer than a mod would have worn them, fitted and waisted, flaring slightly to form a tight middle, split by a single 18 inch vent. All were adorned with silk hankies shaped to a point. The trousers were single pleat, but cut narrow in the leg, ending perhaps an inch higher than Savile Row would suggest, to reveal socks that were either red or white. Their shirts were all crisp cotton poplin, with button down collars, the neat Ivy League style, probably bought at the famed Ivy Shop in Richmond. Button-downs were absolutely mandatory throughout this era.....Their footwear was of course immaculate. Either brogues....or Royals, which were also known as smooths.....Two of them had on Crombies, woolen navy gentleman's topcoats with a fly front and possibly a black velvet collar. .....The remarkable level of sartorial exactitude which some, admittedly few, top ranking skinheads displayed was relatively rare, although any self respecting skin would have a whistle, a pair of brogues and a mock Crombie.

That is one of the most memorable passages from the book. I also loved the comment that their hair looked as though it had been cropped that day - and every day!

Obviously I wasn't there and Elms was but when I first read the book I did raise an eyebrow at one or two of the descriptions. Their footwear would not have been 'either brogues or Royals' but rather either brogued or plain Royals or perhaps Solatios. And I doubt their jackets would have been as long as Elms says. More likely to have been shorter than a mod’s. And a final point that seemed odd was the pointy pocket hanks he mentions – I imagine they would have rather been puffed. Then again this could all be a regional thing…..

 

[Get Smart]

^^ also at Elms' age, being so young, it is hard to imagine his memory being so accurate. I think there is a lot of "in hindsight" filling in the blanks his own mind probably did on what he thought he had seen

 

[browniecj]

You are correct in what you say,Get Smart.Robert Elms seems to have been at the forefront of every Fashion Craze(according to his Book)-for nearly 20 years.I do take a lot of what he says with a large pinch of Salt.
The leaner "Peanuts" did originate out of the East End.During the winter of 67/68,The Mile End Crew(the main West Ham Firm,at the time)wore Donkey Jackets as a Uniform.I know because I saw them at the Matches-teamed with Jungle Greens.There have been claims and counter claims to where actually Skinheads started.I have my own theory.To the West (around the Ivy Shop catchment area)you had a more American leaning Style.A follow on from the Mods.In the East there was a variation-which encompassed the meaner "Look".Boots etc.At some point there was a crossing over(maybe `67,early `68).This was when I became interested.With my work,I was able to catch up with the different variations.Believe me there was a few.
I was thinking the other day,how the Harrington has gone through 3 Fashion Crazes.James Dean has always been credited in wearing one(Rebel Without A Cause),which is wrong,but if you watch Elvis Presley in "King Croele" he is certainly wearing one.So that is 56/57,early 60s and late 60s.Not bad eh?

 

[Brideshead]



^^ also at Elms' age, being so young, it is hard to imagine his memory being so accurate. I think there is a lot of "in hindsight" filling in the blanks his own mind probably did on what he thought he had seen

Agreed. It is almost impossible sometimes for me to recall all the details - some stand out and others are shrouded in the mists of time........

 

[browniecj]

Totally agree on that.A bit of digging about and hey presto-so good stuff!

 

[Lasttye]

I think you will find the three lads at Elms door is pure fiction, he would have been to young to appreciate the styles, But one thing i know as a fact, Elms lived in Burnt Oak, having moved there from the Notting Hill slum clearance.
The Burnt Oak Mob had some of the smartest skinheads in 60s NW London, Although they was our enemy we all agreed that they was smarter than us. a couple of years later, i became friends with one of the leaders, lovely Lad who is sadly no longer with us.
I am sure Elms love of cloths comes from seeing his brothers and mates dressed up, bit like me seeing my Mod brother and Uncles a few years before.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

I wouldn't say that too loudly, Roy, for a couple of reasons I'll let you know in private in due course.

 

[Lasttye]

The scene of the three skinheads at Elms door, That just about describes every smart bit of 60s Skinhead kit, I suppose its artists licence... so to speak, I was 10 in 64 and clearly remember the Mods, but not the finer details, Elms would have researched for the book, and of course asked his Brothers.

 

[Lasttye]

Just picking up on what John said about jacket length, The skinhead jacket was longer than the Mod jacket, also it was a lot more waisted than the Mod jacket.
If you look at my old Skinhead suit made in 69 you will see the length of the jacket. One other thing he was also right about the single pleat/dart on the trousers, what he was wrong about was the trousers leg... they was not tight fitting, more parallel like you can see in my photo.

 

[Big Muscle]

Could somebody advise me with crombie sizing? I don't have possibility to try in the shop (or at least, I don't know about any shop here which sells crombie coats), so I have to order from e-shop (e-bay or something - brand warrior, jump the gun etc.). But what size to select so it fits well? May I compare chest size (armpit-to-armpit) e.g. with my harrington and buy the same size? Or any advice?

Also, should I look for crombies with one right hand pocket or two right hand pockets?

Thank you!

 

[Get Smart]



Could somebody advise me with crombie sizing? I don't have possibility to try in the shop (or at least, I don't know about any shop here which sells crombie coats), so I have to order from e-shop (e-bay or something - brand warrior, jump the gun etc.). But what size to select so it fits well? May I compare chest size (armpit-to-armpit) e.g. with my harrington and buy the same size? Or any advice?

Also, should I look for crombies with one right hand pocket or two right hand pockets?

Thank you!

depends where you get it from, but assuming you go with Jump the Gun, which I own one of, it fits true to size. that said, I think their harringtons run 1 size large, so i am a size 36 in harrington, size 38 in crombie (and wear size 38 in most gear)

pockets...most prefer the coat to have a ticket pocket (2 right hand pockets), if you go with JtG it has all the "usual details" that one would expect

 

[Big Muscle]

Thank you. I just measured my harrington and levi's denim jacket at the back and both are 66 cm (i.e. 26") armpit-to-armpit. So could it be right when ordering the same sized crombie?

eBay provides some relco brand which is XXL (chest size 48") and exactly 26" wide: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-C...pt=UK_Men_s_Coats_Jackets&hash=item1c1ead87d1 (but I'm not sure about quality)

Warrior one in XXL is only 25.5": http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Class..._Men_s_Coats_Jackets&var=&hash=item895f78c3e4

Found only one jump the gun there, which says "chest size 48 regular"

 

[soundsnpressure]

Big Muscle - For that Price range, I think you'd be just as well getting a 'MERC of London' Crombie/lord John overcoat

http://www.merc.com/collection/men/Jackets-Coats/product/Lord-John-Overcoat

They appear on E-bay all the time. I see them quite often approx £50 second hand. But You can often pick them up for £100 NEW.
I bought a Navy one in the summer for £100 new.

Has all the details and good quality.

Just don't tell anybody it's Merc ha ha.