Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    Would also be interested in this.
     


  2. Michael Ay329

    Michael Ay329 Senior member

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    Grammaton Cleric, thank you for your information and I look forward to learning more about how to acquire older LL/Lovat cloths (as I could use making a spare trousers on a couple of cloths)

    Fox does sell some 18oz flannels, but not in the combo of patterns and colors offered in the LL book, and not for double or 2.5 the price.

    Off Fox's web site, the single color 18oz/540gram Fox Flannels go for 92 pounds compared to 120 pounds for the LL specials. A 28 pound difference.
    http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/54/suiting-and-jacketing-lengths#&pg=4

    I am curious, Grammaton Cleric, as to where can I buy the 48 pounds heavy Fox Flannels?

    A while back the LL had the Donkey and Air Force Blue flannels made in Spain. Months later, I was able to acquire 5 other colors in the same weight range from this companies' heavyweight 500-520gram flannel book. The similar colors to Donkey and Air Force Blue flannels were in this book. But I do not have the knowledge to confirm or deny if they were the same weight or made to the same specs.

    It could be that Alden collaborated with this Spanish flannel maker to create these colors, and then they included them in their standard offerings. I do not remember the exact price as I did this 4 years ago, but the price difference was around 60 pounds for the LL flannels, compared to 60 euros for the Spanish companies standard offerings.

    It was a lot easier to pay/deal directly with Alden on this flannel project than having to establish a relationship from scratch with this company (which prefers to work with tailors, not individual consumers).
    Which is why unlike Fox or Lovat (where the I contact them directly), I dealt with Alden as to the 2 LL flannels.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013


  3. coolpapa

    coolpapa Senior member

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    What is Alden's story any way? He's typically described as an "American financier" or the like. Does anyone know anything about him beyond that?
     


  4. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    Here's an example of why I personally choose LL cloths. You look at the two photos below which are very nice tweed cloths. The first from JG Hardy and the next from Lovat.

    [​IMG]
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    At first glance they kind of look like these two cloths:


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    But when you hold these cloths and the LL cloths side by side the differences become more obvious in terms of colors and textures as you can see here. These photos were taken in the exact same spot in the exact same light with no touch ups. It's that extra bit of panache the LL cloths that I admire. If one prefers the Hardy and Lovat stock ones that's fine too.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I'm not here to justify Alden's pricing and business model. It definitely is a business as was mentioned. Like with any, you can choose to partake or not. Would I prefer the prices be cheaper? Of course, but it is what it is.

    It was mentioned that the Agnelli tweed exists at Lovat already and that Alden just copied it. This is in reference to the gray with navy blue windowpane, correct? I believe I saw that swatch one time. It was similar, but not identical. Here is a photo of it below and a photo of the LL tweed below that. From what I recall in person it was flimsier and likely wouldn't drape as well. If it was the exact same thing I for one would be disappointed, but that's not my recollection. As they say in Thailand, "same, same, but different."

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013


  5. marcodalondra

    marcodalondra Senior member

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    Part of the reasons why Fox an others have increased prices for te general public is Alden himself. I can understand he invest his time in doing those things, but the up charge on fabric is not justifiable IMO.
     


  6. Michael Ay329

    Michael Ay329 Senior member

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    It appears he might be a transplanted Californian (of French origins), who has returned to Paris, yet spends his summers in Sicily. He has a distinct sense of style, providing a modern look while tipping his hat to classic designs and cloths from a bygone era. He controls his own forum and cloth club, and I've safely bought cloth from him for the past few years
     


  7. RogerC

    RogerC Senior member

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    Is Gorina still in business? Their website has been dead for months.
     


  8. Michael Ay329

    Michael Ay329 Senior member

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    Sorry Roger C, have not dealt with Gorina for years

    I imagined the LL would have done more projects with them, but perhaps they are no longer available as a partner. Their prices were more competitive than Fox and I found they were of similar quality flannel.
     


  9. NewYorkIslander

    NewYorkIslander Affiliate Vendor

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    Closeup of the 1927 sponged jacketing:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     


  10. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    Awesome find, Robb Report.

    That would be a nice coating even without the interesting story.

    Any thoughts on how the old old stuff differs from today's heavyweights, if at all?
     


  11. Slewfoot

    Slewfoot Senior member

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    That's badass. Congrats on the find and Happy New Year!
     


  12. francoamerican

    francoamerican Senior member

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    Somewhat inspired by this

    dieworkwear.com/post/66104448254/tobacco-fresco


    I'm looking for a solid brown spring summer fabric for a three patch odd jacket. I'm buying mtm from propersuit. I had thought some sort of hopsack or wool linen silk blend.

    Thanks in an advance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014


  13. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    What do you guys think about the Harrison's Mirage book? Anyone made it up?
     


  14. mactire

    mactire Senior member

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    A fully paid up member of the Berkshire Hunt.


    The cut length price for Fox used to be £42/m ex-VAT on all ranges. Entirely due to Alden queering the pitch for others and having his supposed own 'range' of cloth issued Fox Bros. jumped their price to the £92-£100 ex-VAT level.


    Amen. He adds no value to the path between sheep and loom and has leveraged being an internet personality into an earner for himself. That is all.
     


  15. gopherblue

    gopherblue Senior member

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    I'm having a sportcoat made of the Harrison's Mirage as I write this--in process at Ercole:


    I really like the hand of the two bolts of Mirage cloth I handled. Frank and Ercole both said they love it, and told me it makes up beautifully. I've read favorable comments on other iGent forums too. I'll let you know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014


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