The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Tried and True]

Sometimes you buy things that aren't important or aren't the best value just because you like them.

 

[in stitches]



^^^ FAKE!
But seriously, Stitchy, that's insane.

Absurd.

You know, funny enough, the quality of fakes is just going to push more and more people into brand boutiques.
That is just crazy.

I would have to agree. Or at least to ADs and sellers that are truly trusted. I think for a lot of people it will really cut down on online purchasing (which will suck for me as a seller) and buying second hand frm smaller operations.

Wow, that is an incredibly good fake.
Stitch, what was it that told you it was a fake?

Best fake I have handled to date. There was a Rolex that was a close second, but the date wheel did not spin quite right and there was no box or papers.

Well, for starters, DerekS told me that the cannon pin (the one that goes through the stack of hands in the middle of the watch) should be a hump at the top of the pile, and on this watch, you can see that that pin is inverted, and sits below the top hand. A quick image search showed that the real ones indeed have a hump.

On top of that, I found a very handy post on a Malaysian watch forum that detailed exactly how the case, serial, and movement, numbers, match up and are referenced one to the other between the various papers and cards and the watch back, and these were off a little. The movement number from the COSC paper was not referenced anywhere else, and the serial number was not shown on the stickers, they only had the caseback number and barcode.

The last thing was that I called the AD on the card, and they are no longer a Panerai AD. Could be nothing, as he could have bought the watch when they were ADs, as they were ADs as of the date on the warranty card, but it didnt feel right.

Its all very nuanced, and had I not been on the lookout and had the customer himself not given me pause, I easily could have been fooled.

One thing I do is to always ask an outside source first, in this case, Derek. When you have the customer and the watch in front of you, its easy to get blinded by the romance of the watch and ignore red flags. You need to have another set of eyes to keep you on the ball, imho.

Thanks, @DerekS !

Spot on my man!!! 

 

[in stitches]



Sometimes you buy things that aren't important or aren't the best value just because you like them.

I would heartily agree with this. if someone is truly in love with that Omega, and it appeals to him aesthetically more than any other comp, he should buy what he likes, not what he feels is more appropriate for the price point. Personally, I like the AP JA more, and I just couldn't feel good about spending 5 digits on a plain gold three handed Omega, but thats just me.

 

[MGoCrimson]

And somewhere out there a fake Panerai manufacturer is taking notes

 

[in stitches]

Sadly, I am sure that is true. They are only going to get better. There are entire forums dedicated to making replicas as good as possible. Some of them even use ETA movements from what I hear.

Now, ostensibly these are just hobbyists that enjoy the challenge of replicating watches, and maybe for some that is true, but there are just as many people out there, if not more, doing this to cheat buyers.

 

[DLJr]

Thanks guys. That's the input I wanted.

FWIW, you won't be paying anywhere near MSRP for the Omega. That said, if you can comfortably look at watches up to $15K, I'd look elsewhere as well. I'm not a Piaget guy though, I don't like dinner plates.

 

[Patrick R]



Sometimes you buy things that aren't important or aren't the best value just because you like them.

Exactly. That'll likely be the case here. Resale value has never been an issue on anything I've purchased, I buy and keep forever, whether it is musical instruments, watches, whatever. So whether I like it is the most important. I just wanted input I what others like in that class.

 

[Keith T]

Three cheers for DerekS, the fakebuster.

And here I thought he was just another pretty face!


Way to mind your due diligence, stitchy ... it's a mad world out there.

Very glad you were able to protect yourself on this one.

Some crooks go to such great lengths, and take so much effort and trouble just to cheat somebody, that I often wonder: couldn't they apply themselves to a legitimate enterprise and be just as economically successful?!

 

[TC (Houston)]



Sadly, I am sure that is true. They are only going to get better. There are entire forums dedicated to making replicas as good as possible. Some of them even use ETA movements from what I hear.

Now, ostensibly these are just hobbyists that enjoy the challenge of replicating watches, and maybe for some that is true, but there are just as many people out there, if not more, doing this to cheat buyers.

Just out of curiosity, how do you break this kind of news to the owner? Do you just say I'm sorry we can't take this, or do you tell him outright that you believe the watch is fake? I'd imagine in many cases the owner may not even be aware. There was a case on another board where a guy bought a fake AP Survivor, had the strap changed out by the AD, and only upon posting pics of his watch on the forum did he discover it was indeed a fake.

 

[in stitches]



Just out of curiosity, how do you break this kind of news to the owner? Do you just say I'm sorry we can't take this, or do you tell him outright that you believe the watch is fake? I'd imagine in many cases the owner may not even be aware. There was a case on another board where a guy bought a fake AP Survivor, had the strap changed out by the AD, and only upon posting pics of his watch on the forum did he discover it was indeed a fake.

99.9% of people with fakes that are trying to sell them to shop owners know they are fakes. They are trying to cheat you. I just told him that there was limited interest in this model and that without a solid offer for from someone in my network that was ready to buy, I could not invest in the watch.

Meaning, dude, its a fake, nice attempt at stealing our money but no cigar.

He knew what I meant and smiled and said, Ok, no problem. Anyone with a legit watch would have pushed the envelope for any kind of offer. A good crook knows when the jig is up and when to fold em, they take no very well and move on to another mark.

The only exception to this was a college kid with what I was pretty sure was a fake Omega PO. he got mad at me and was pressing for an offer. The whole deal smelled bad, he was all "dressed up" like he was trying to force some impression of being important. It just didnt feel right. I very nicely told him sorry about 10 times. He threatened to ruin us online...... But I just held my ground and he left. Never to be heard from again.

I could have called the cops and made a big deal in a kind of attempt to save the next mark, but it would be almost impossible to explain this to a cop, and its hard to prove that I am right to those not in the know, so he would have skated anyways.

The only times I had people with fakes that did not know, was with, erm, more lower class clientele that had been given gifts or bought it on the street and they legitimately thought what they had was real. They meant no harm, so no reason to crush their hopes. Also, it could get very contentious with that kind of accusation and that kind of customer, so its never worth it.


---

Thanks, Keith.

 

[bkotsko]

99.9% of people with fakes that are trying to sell them to shop owners know they are fakes. They are trying to cheat you. I just told him that there was limited interest in this model and that without a solid offer for from someone in my network that was ready to buy, I could not invest in the watch.

Meaning, dude, its a fake, nice attempt at stealing our money but no cigar.

He knew what I meant and smiled and said, Ok, no problem. Anyone with a legit watch would have pushed the envelope for any kind of offer. A good crook knows when the jig is up and when to fold em, they take no very well and move on to another mark.

The only exception to this was a college kid with what I was pretty sure was a fake Omega PO. he got mad at me and was pressing for an offer. The whole deal smelled bad, he was all "dressed up" like he was trying to force some impression of being important. It just didnt feel right. I very nicely told him sorry about 10 times. He threatened to ruin us online...... But I just held my ground and he left. Never to be heard from again.

I could have called the cops and made a big deal in a kind of attempt to save the next mark, but it would be almost impossible to explain this to a cop, and its hard to prove that I am right to those not in the know, so he would have skated anyways.

The only times I had people with fakes that did not know, was with, erm, more lower class clientele that had been given gifts or bought it on the street and they legitimately thought what they had was real. They meant no harm, so no reason to crush their hopes. Also, it could get very contentious with that kind of accusation and that kind of customer, so its never worth it.


---

Thanks, Keith.

Excellent response.

 

[Dino944]

Sometimes you buy things that aren't important or aren't the best value just because you like them.

People should always buy what they like regardless of other's opinions. The OP doesn't know us, and we don't know him, or his sense of style and what might work best for him as alternatives. Only he will know if that is the perfect watch for him, regardless of price.

He asked our opinions, and so several of us stated for that kind of money we would choose something else. If he has $15K available there are far finer watches he could choose from, but if he is set on that Omega then he should go for it and enjoy it.

Sadly, I am sure that is true. They are only going to get better. There are entire forums dedicated to making replicas as good as possible. Some of them even use ETA movements from what I hear.

Some of the "Best" fake Rolex watches use real Rolex parts, and I had heard that is one of the reasons Rolex confiscates all old parts and at least in the USA, only sells new parts on a trade in basis. You want a new dial, they keep the old one. You want a new bezel, they keep the old one. They do not want people cobbling together fraken-watches or fake watches using a few authentic used parts.

The market for fakes be it watches, hand bags, or others goods is so lucrative that as bigger counterfeiters continue to make more money, they will have more money to invest in producing better/more accurate looking fakes, and it will become much tougher to distinguish real ones from fakes.

I'm not a Piaget guy though, I don't like dinner plates.

There are various sizes available for Piaget Altiplanos. IMHO they only start to resemble dinner plates when you go with the models that are over 40mm (although I've thought the same thing of VC's Patimony Contemporaine, even when theirs are 40mm). But to each his own.

 

[Patrick R]

Quote:
I like this thread (and generally this forum) because I can ask questions, get opinions, and no one overvalues their own input. In other places, the Dino equivalent poster could respond with "you could buy that watch, but you'd be a dumbfuck!" I get the point everyone is making, it's why I asked. If I thought the watch was worth the asking price, I wouldn't question it. But it is a watch that is more attractive to me than any other I've seen at any price range (I have very specific personal tastes) and I was just looking for input and for anyone else to show me what they like better as a fresh perspective.

I appreciate all of the conversation.

 

[Gsvs5]



But holy crap they are making serous fakes these days.

Here are some pics:

Can't tell from your photo,but were the concentric circles evident on the second dial,and the rectangular box framing the date?

 

[in stitches]

Yes defo to the circles, cant recall about the date.