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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    They do take a massive depreciation hit, so yeah, big discounts on grey market/nearly new.

    I really like the style, and the finishing is excellent: hand-engraved balance cocks (no two alike) etc etc. I like them. They have a strong house style with a lot of jazzy art deco references rather than the much-referenced Bauhaus (see above!), and are definitely worth a look in their own right, IMHO.

    As CWI just said, the "Pano" models do look quite a lot like a Lange 1 in concept, and that's a common complaint. To be fair, though, GO actually have a cooler way of doing the "big date" with a completely different mechanism that makes the two numbers align better. Also, in one way or another, they were all the same company twenty years ago. So I think it's little unfair to call GO a derivative or imitator of Lange: of course some of the design elements are the same, as they're often referencing the same back catalogue. But it's really only the Pano/Lange1 similarity that projects that impression, I think.

    So in conclusion, I'd say buy it if you like it and if the price is right. But if you want something that doesn't look at all like a Lange, avoid the Pano. Try the Senator range - the classic Senator three hand is lovely I think, and the perpetual calendar too. Also the "Sixties" and "Seventies" lines - more divisive, you'll love or hate either, but very individual.

    P.S. Loving the conversation turning to the German catalogue, a weird obsession of mine. I like a lot of the GO's, Pano included, even though Lange is probably my grail (about five of them at least!). For now, Sinn, Stowa etc. are a more accessible possibility. Watch this space. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
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  2. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Senior member

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  3. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    You're welcome, and fear not: soon the big boys will be here to straighten me out!
     
  4. Cant kill da Rooster

    Cant kill da Rooster Senior member

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    I love that the discussion has come up on the German watch bands for beaters. I just sold the Antea with that Unitas movement, and although the movement is really cool, the watch was just too large for a dress watch. Now the pilot watch in that size, makes a lot of sense and you may have renewed my interest a little bit.

    That pic you posted of the Archimede in the bronze is nice. I would love to see one in person.

    Sinn as always has been on my list but I've never been able to pull the trigger. For a beater I certainly like the 104 for it's classic looks over the 556 although it's not as versatile.

    The Glashutte models are all stunning. I went to a local AD to check out the 70's Panorama. He said they stopped carrying them because they were too difficult to sell in this small market (that and they had trouble getting responses from Glashutte). I assume that is why you get such good value second hand.
     
  5. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    The ones I have handled are real nice. Im not sold on the pricing of some of their higher end models, but the mid range ones that MSRP in the 5k +/- range are good stuff imo. Solid bang for your buck.
     
  6. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    CKDR: There are different sizes of the Antea, though, the "classic" is 35.5mm. There's a 36.5, a 39 and a 41, so something for everyone! Which was yours?

    Following on from DL's comment, there's always the small step up from Sinn/Stowa to Nomos for something more dressy. I'm told they wear big with their long lugs, so definitely need to be explored. But again, as the Orion is 35mm standard, and 33mm for the ladies, it's a matter of choice.

    Then there's Tutima, Muehle, Union...all while we're still in Glashuette.

    But yeah, Stowa Flieger. Been on the radar a looong time. Hmm. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  7. Cant kill da Rooster

    Cant kill da Rooster Senior member

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    I had the 41mm. I liked the small seconds and it was either that or the 36mm which I thought might be too small. Also, the caseback wasn't as nice. Nomos is an option as well.
     
  8. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    ^^^ SubC ND goodness.
     
  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Mimo, I don't want to beat a dead horse on the topic of Lange Ones vs Panos, as I've made my thoughts known on that topic several times. However, they were not the same company 20 years ago. Furthermore, the Lange One is the original of that style of asymetric dial layout...it's that plain and simple. To suggest that because GO developed a different grand date mechanism, the Pano is not derivative or an imitator is silly. Further IMHO it unfairly takes credit from Lange's originality, and unfairly bolster's the idea that the Pano is an original design/concept.

    I do agree wth your statements concerning the Senator, 60's vintage & 70s style models, and I belive they represent a great value and high quality.

    Wishing the OP lots of luck.
     
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  11. adagio

    adagio Senior member

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    Got this last week, after months of trying find a pre-loved one that didn't have a case that looked like it had been through a shredder. I think they're definitely ding magnets though. [​IMG]
     
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  12. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Well, just to give that expired equine one more kick: to say that GO just set out to copy the Lange 1 seems a bit uncharitable: after all, the small time layout wasn't new - classic complications by Breguet and others had already been there. Also, the asymmetry with that sweeping power reserve and all, was a feature of Lange's stablemate JLC, on the Master Control Geographic and Reserve de Marche that had been around a few years by then. Even though the Lange 1 was pre-Richemont, Lange and JLC were both owned by Mannesman then and no doubt sharing resources themselves. So one could even say that if GO copied the Lange 1 from their neighhours, Lange might equally be said to have copied the MC RDM from their sister company, at least in part.

    If we accept that GO and Lange already had equal claim on the idea of a substantial watch with a big date window (they'd been making them together at GUB for fifty years), then it's only really the asymmetry and sweeping power reserve we're talking about - defining characteristics of JLC perhaps? But just as the Lange 1 is nothing like a JLC, I feel personally that the GO Pano is sufficiently different from the Lange 1 in feel and personality to warrant consideration on its own merits. And that some elements they share, are a history that belongs to both.

    Anyway, I appreciate that there's no definitive answer here until Herr Glashuette logs in to say "no, actually I just lifted the whole damn thing - until I saw the Lange 1, I was thinking of going digital...". Or otherwise. Maybe GO did go too obvious in making an asymmetric dial soon after the Lange 1. But given how much else they already shared, I think it's still probably OK to like it. Or not. Those JLCs are sweet, too :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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  13. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    love the GO Panomatic. I'll take the Lunar with gray face and grey suede strap. boom!
     
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  14. Tried and True

    Tried and True Senior member

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    There are iconic makers of pocket watches and clocks from centuries past rolling over in their graves.
     
  15. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Sorry Mimo, but this is one where we will have to agree to disagree. I never suggested Lange invented asymmetry in a watch or the power reserve complication. Further, it's well known that JLC helped them develop the grand date.

    I don't even mind the GO put a grand date on their watches, hell at one point it seemed everyone other than Patek, AP & Rolex were adding grand dates to their watches...so I find it a sort of played out complication that is of little interest to me anyway.

    I don't mind if companies adopt certain functional improvements (I don't lament cars not having a hand crank to start them), which can evolve and further their durability (anti shock mechanisms, water resistant case components, sapphire synthetic crystals, anti-magnetic parts/structures etc). However, this is a style/ plagiarizing issue.

    The Lange One's dial layout with a large subdial for hours & minutes, to the left side of the dial, small seconds gently touching the outer edge of the hours/min subdial plus power reserve & grand date was a clean, fresh approach to wrist watch dial designs. Yes, the small seconds was done differently on the GO and the mechanism for the grand date was done differently, but I'm sorry there is no way you can suggest the Pano's design was groundbreaking, original, and didn't/doesn't remind one of the Lange One...hence it's an imitator/derivative or as I've called it in the past the Lange One's less attractive cousin. Maybe it's as you say uncharitable to say that about the GO Pano, however perhaps its naive or giving undeserved accolades to suggest its original or a design that stands on its own. Funny thing is, when I see a Lange 1, I appreciate its design and see a Lange. When I see a Pano, I see an L1 wanna be. I never see a Lange One and even think about Panos.

    As said earlier, this is a style/ plagiarizing issue. If you painted the Mona Lisa but gave her red hair, pink lipstick, and a "beauty mark," you wouldn't have an original idea or painting...it's the same on the Pano. Sure some elements changed, so it's not a copy, but I can't help but look at it and think... I've seen this elsewhere and I'd rather have an original.

    There is a value to being first and being original. I remember champions and gold medalists ... 2nd and 3rd place contenders can be very good...but sadly are forgotten.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  16. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    We will have to agree to agree. [​IMG]
     
  17. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    ,

    Sorry, I didn't realize the OP was considering a clock or pocket watch, hence I was focusing on wrist watches.
     
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  18. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Sorry, duplicate post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  19. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Hahaha. The Kraaken wakes!

    Dino, I love you man. You and certain others might be in the process of ruining my life, but I've had so much education from this thread over the last couple of years, it might just be worth it. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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  20. Cant kill da Rooster

    Cant kill da Rooster Senior member

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    Interesting discussion. That's why I read TWAT. Well that and the watch photos.
     
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