Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.
LOVE that Zenith - I've been tempted by it many times.
Ah, regrets about the imprecise wording; I was talking about the Reverso's water resistance, not the RO's. I'd take that Dual Time for a dunk without hesitation.
If a watch has had a good pressure test within the past year or so and is reasonable for it, I'll take it for a swim without stressing. That 34-year-old 50m-rated plexi GMT has been my go-to watch for use in seawater for some time now, to the point that I recently got rid of my only diver's watch since I never wore it. It's great to have something that can stay on your wrist at all times, especially for travel. If you're not playing around with messy vehicles too often, the RO is a good choice in this regard, along with the other usual suspects in the steel-sports-watch category.
While we're talking about water resistance, have you noticed that "duh, is it safe to wear my 2000m-rated diver's watch in the shower?" is the always one of the top watch-forum-noob questions? I believe that a lot of BS about water resistance originates from memories of the instruction manuals from crappy 1980s digital watches that claimed (accompanied with cute little pictograms) that:
30m of WR rating is OK for use only in mildly humid climates,
50m is probably safe for washing your hands if you're careful,
100m should do for the kiddie pool and,
200m can be chanced for snorkeling as long as you don't thrash about too much and cause "dynamic pressure" (which is completely negligible at human speeds even if you're Michael friggin' Phelps, by the way).
This ancient fear of having water near watches is likely part of the justification process that people who will never go deeper than a couple of metres underwater use when they buy these gigantic diver's watches that seem to be popular. "I might need this helium-escape valve and multi-km depth rating if I wear this to the beach, in case I get splashed." Both the depth rating and the extra hole in the case are strictly ornamental, as the deepest anyone's gone on SCUBA equipment is 330m, and the commercial guys are the only ones with even a remotely legitimate need for an HEV. COMEX crews actually have gone as far down as 534m with their Sea-Dwellers, which is insane. And super cool.
In regards to knowledge it really depends on the AD and the Boutique. Keep in mind also that Rolex Boutiques are not owned by Rolex. Those are owned typically by the large chain ADs like Tourneau.
No worries thanks for clarifying that you haven't avoided a RO for fear that 50m isn't water resistant. My first Rolex was a GMT that was WR to 50m and it never gave me any problems with regard to wearing it in the shower, or to swim at a beach or in a pool. I took that watch shooting, on trips, and it did everything I did for nearly 10 years.
My Explorer 2 (a wedding gift from my wife) is usually my do everything watch. Its the watch I'd generally go to if something might be a bit too rough or abusive for the RO. Also, being a bit older and wiser if I'm doing something in the garage with one of the cars, I take off my watch, both to protect the watch and the car.
Yes, I generally skip a lot of the newbie "What can I wear my watch do do questions" that are in many forums. Although my least favorite watch question on most forums goes something like this... I got this Rolexxe, Kartier, Padeck Filippe, etc on Ebay for $100. I am including an incredibly blury picture. Also, the seller told me this one has a really finely made movement from their Japanese factory ...is it real and did I make a good purchase?
Those Padeck Filippes and Rolexxes are totally my cup of tea and I always pay MSRP + 20% tip to my ADs for the privilege of purchasing those fine timepieces!
Off to Dubai next month. As I have heard watches is cheaper there then normal. Is this information correct?
In regards to the current discussions here, I really think it is a wise choice for Brands to close the amount of ADs and focus on well-reputed ADs and Boutiques. I find it interesting that watches seem to be one of the last commodities that you can actually bargain for. You don't bargain for shoes, you don't bargain for clothes. And although you in a sense bargain for a house, or a car, I feel like the watches are fundamentally different.
I think the problem, in a sense, is that there is a disparity in price and value. I think I would be more willing to pay MSRP if I did not feel like the watch companies were price gouging me. When I buy a pair of shoes, I honestly feel like I am getting my money's worth. I don't know why I feel that, but I just do. $400 on a pair of Carminas feels like money well spent. I am not exactly sure what I am trying to say here, but I think that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that the system is currently set up. When I pay for something, I want to feel that I am paying for the worth of what I am receiving. With all of the price increases (twice per year!), it is difficult to see where your money is going. Is it going to R&D? Advertising? It is a very frustrating endeavor. If I purchased a watch from Dufour, Voutilainen, or some of the other Indy's, I would not ask for a discount. With them, I feel like the price is correlated to a MUCH greater extent with what I am receiving. But when I look at an IWC Mark VII, I really do not understand why I am paying nearly double to what I would have paid 5-10 years ago, for almost the exact same watch.
And the discounting only exacerbates that. If I know I can receive 20 percent off of a $5,000 watch, is its price actually $5,000? Or is the price $4,000? Or is the price actually what the AD purchased it for?
I think the watch brands need to enact pricing structures that more accurately reflect the value. However, I am not sure how they are going to do that.
Ah, but those threads, along with the mama's-boy "help me pick a watch because I have no capacity to think for myself" ones, account for the main chunk of the traffic stats that the "popular" site uses to justify its banner ad rates and informercial fees. If it wasn't for the constant stream of credulous new "WIS"es (hate that term), who else would get stoked about Chinese-cased catalogue-component pieces of crap and pay full MSRP online for something with a dial plastered in "badass lume"? Certain watch sites seem like they're consciously trying to draw to draw the least discerning clientele possible.
Although the safest place for it is normally on one's wrist, I agree that watch should be removed before wrench goes in hand, even roadside. The way that the RO's bracelet doesn't lay flat is a bit of a liability for roadside stops, unfortunately, but that's just another reason to carry a linen handkerchief at all times. Mind you, the Africa Twin is so reliable that it would be a non-issue, but my vintage bike is a bit more hands-on. Nice of your wife to get you an Explorer II, by the way! Cool and uncommon choice on her part; those are great watches. Sounds like your GMT led the life that it was designed for, as well. Nice to hear that!
Ah, but you're getting TRIPLE the amount of exposed date wheel and free space inside the case, so it's like you're saving 33% if you really think about it.
The Comex ones are awesome. Great history, you're right! I too wouldn't pay a premium for them, like Dino wrote. Though, I always enjoy reading about the stories of Comex & Milsub Rolexes on this diving watches page: http://diving-watch.org/COMEX-ROLEX-
I wish more watches did this. I have always struggled to figure out what the day before and after the current day is. This is such an elegant way of fixing the problem.
no doubt. thats why i said, in my experience, im sure other people have experienced different.
for the most part, i think there is a lot of truth in here, on the other hand, there are increased costs of business, that is just the way it is. increased wages, increased shipping, insurance, freight charges, increased costs to make fancy boxes and bags, new rates from your ad agency, new rates from places you print/host ads..... that all gets passed along to the consumer.
as well, as long as they feel they can get more, they will try and get it. and as long as people will pay, well then i guess to a degree that is what its worth. however, i do agree that the huge variance in price based on what different ADs will discount, does make the value question more confusing. generally, it just boils down to someone wanting to make a sale.
Personally I enjoy the bargaining process with watches and other big purchases - at the least it helps alleviate the guilt for splashing money on an extravagance. At the same time I don't really expect to negotiate the price on bespoke clothes or a custom made watch. That's probably because psychologically I perceive there to be a service component and it seems impolite to offer less than an artisan's asking price for his/her labor.
I don't actually think people collect these because of just the name though. I think they collect them because they are a tool watch that has actually been used as tool watch under extreme conditions. Maybe the ultimate embodiment of a tool watch, short of getting a Speedy that actually went to the Moon. I mean how much would someone pay for a Speedy like that?
Great flowing exchange, guys. I love this blend of watchmaker history, speculations about management and pricing strategy, and down-to-earth assessments of individual pieces, whether they suit your tastes, and how they actually wear on your wrist.
This is one of the reasons why I love visiting this thread, and continue to learn so much as I build my small collection.
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