The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Ah yes, the Domino's Pizza Air-King. Imagine busting ass for years as a manager to reach pizza-slingin' sales targets, finally getting that sweet, sweet Rolex you've been putting in the extra hours for... ... and then realizing that the dial is half-occupied by the logo of a company at one of whose locations you spend two-thirds of your waking life, softly whispering "we own you" every time you or anyone else looks at the watch. I don't know whether Domino's was actually so naïve as to think that its omnipresence could be perceived only in positive and affectionate terms by the watch's overworked recipients, or whether they were just being deliberately misanthropic, but either interpretation makes it a bit of an awesome watch. It's the token of appreciation that Ike would have given to Tina. Rolex has mercifully stopped accepting commissions to place company logos on its dials for employee-reward-type watches, so now Domino's simply has their branding (the word has rarely seemed more appropriate) riveted to the bracelet instead: [​IMG] The best part? You're not allowed to wear it while you're at work. Brilliant! :teach:
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


  2. HRoi

    HRoi Senior member

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    These are some great shots...the company should buy these from you and use as print ads
     


  3. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    No, mimo, I think you're wrong, you have no idea the number of people who are able and happy to pay MSRP and in fact view it as something to be proud of. Medtech touched on it earlier in the thread.

    Your argument is quickly sunk by your misunderstanding of how the watch industry works. The houses sell their watches at a negotiated price to the middlemen, who are the ADs. The houses are not affected from a financial pov by the ADs discounting, they have already made their money. Except when they open their own boutiques to circumvent the middleman. Then there are all the soft reasons like brand image, secondary market values, etc etc that get affected by rampant deep discounting.

    The fact remains that while we in the so called western developed world hollow our economies and communities out for the benefit of a few, we create an entire generation of new rich (I do not mean this in a derogatory way) who share little in the way of culture, let alone purchasing habits with us. We have subsidised the rich in the poor countries by taking from the poor in the rich countries.

    What do you think is the single biggest factor causing prices to rise? Has it been driven by the brands? The shrinking proportion of penny pinching buyers in the west? Or the emergence of a previously untapped market hungry to catch up?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


  4. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    I might well be wrong about the number of people willing to pay more. But I don't think I've misunderstood. As you put it, the "soft reasons like brand image, secondary market value get affected by rampant deep discounting", which is my central point. So makers have a choice: take the Omega route and allow your brand to become less exclusive, but openly push it to a wider, less specialist market for your volume. Or close out the deep discounting by opening your own boutiques, take the retail margin yourself, and accept that exclusivity of brand means a smaller volume of sales.

    That's a fair point about a driving force in price increases, though: China and Russia especially have discovered an enormous appetite from what I've seen. But the point you made about Medtech's observation of people wanting to buy from the boutique for prestige, is important in that context. The prestige brands have to remain prestige for that kind of customer to want them.
     


  5. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Hi Mimo,

    As Belligro was mentioning, that Domino's Air King is not a limited edition. Its actually a watch commissioned by Dominos and given to people in their industry that achieve certain goals. Personally, I think their new pizza is disgusting and smells like old feet, so they should spend more time learning to make a good pizza and spend less time riveting junky medalions to watches. In any event, as Belligro mentioned Rolex no longer takes commisions from companies, governments, royalty etc. I've seen Subs that commemorate the Suez Canal, Daytonas with symbols from various air force units, and other models with Saudi writing on them. They are an interesting part of Rolex history, and I wouldn't mind a Daytona with an air force symbol, or maybe a Sub with the Suez Canal insignia, but who the F*ck wants a watch that stands for smelly greasy pizza...no thanks.

    Yes, many companies have reduced the number of ADs. Some of it is retaliation for deep discounting. However, it also works for the company and the AD because if you reduce the number of ADs in a state there is less competition among them, and less competition within a region means buyers that don't want to travel have fewer options, and there is less need for an AD to discount to get a sale. If most dealers in a region stay with the no discount or low discount, it forces people to pay MSRP or close to it. Rolex goes a step further to reduce competition (at least in the US), they do not allow watch sales via telephone purchase. I ran into this issue when I wanted a model that had gone out of production. I live on the east coast, the watch was in California. They told me (and I called Rolex in NY to confirm) that I had to either travel there to get it or have someone go there for me, which is what I did.

    As for brand Boutiques, once one company does it, they all have to do it. It does give a brand a more upscale appearance in some regions, and that is something that can't be ignored in wealthy areas that are competing for sales of high end merchandise. They often have better trained personel and a greater selection than an AD, and while they do not discount the incentive to buy from them is often that they will extend the warranty (AP's standard warranty is 2 years, if you do some on line registration it gets extended to 3 years...but if you buy from the boutique its a 5 year warranty plus a free overhaul within the 5 years). In addition, if you buy from the boutique you will have access/the opportunity to buy boutique editions that are not available to people that buy from ADs.

    The days of really deep discounting are long gone or (will be gone soon). Imagine buying a new automatic PP Calatrava with date with a discount of 40% off the MSRP or a Nautilus for 35% off. How about 25% off a new steel GMT Master in the mid 1980s, or 12 years ago 15% off a new SS GMT Master (not a huge discount compared to others but for Rolex it is). How or 25% off a new Cartier or 35% off a VC. I miss those days...as my fun money would surely go further. However, I do understand brands feeling it cheapens the appeal of their watches and leads to a much softer resale value.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


  6. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    pretty much agree with dino in the the above.

    to dinos point, right now, rolex does not allow the ADs to offer ANY discounting at all on steel models.

    also, ime, boutique sales people have been by far, by-enlarge, more knowledgable and more interested in watches, and more enjoyable to chat with, even when they know you are only there to chat, than sales people in ADs. especially if the AD is primarily a jewelry store that also sells high end watch lines.
     


  7. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    I figured the vibration could have some effect on the watch, but as for WR all ROs are water resistant to at least 50m. Not something I'd wear diving, but rain or a swim shouldn't hurt it (although I know some people do not want to subject a watch to water unless its water resistant to 100m). However not being a rider, I didn't think of the watch being subjected to road grit, which probably wouldn't add beauty to a RO's finish.

    Having a collection you are satisfied with is a great feeling!
     


  8. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    Totally get you, Dino - and I assumed the origin of the Domino's thing was something like that; it was just the most ridiculous thing I could find (well, apart from my Saddam Hussein Rodania, but I think that was kind of their thing).

    That's an interesting refinement you mention, actually: they don't need to completely wipe out ADs, just reduce the number sufficiently and make buying from a distance hard. I'd like my "fun money" to go further too. But from a cool-headed business point of view, I get what they're doing. I suppose that's all I really needed to say in the first place.[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


  9. Allez Allez

    Allez Allez Senior member

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    I agree the Domino's one looks like crap. On the other hand, a Comex branded Submariner has a great history behind it and is highly collectible.

    [​IMG]
     


  10. bluetree110

    bluetree110 Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Taking pictures at work to kill time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


  11. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Yes there are some people that consider paying MSRP a badge of honor. But I think the number of those people isn't as great as you might think. Even in wealthy areas and developing regions where some people have what seems to be insane wealth, many of these people are serious bargain hunters. Its not that they don't have the money its that they want a deal. They like to show they are in control and they can affect the price. I've seen people nickel and dime the hell out of sales people on fine watches (and I'm not talking about pieces that are $20K or less), and I've seen some nickel and dime the hell out of car sales people on an Aston Martin. Yes, these people love to wear or drive high end items, sometimes bragging about its MSRP, but they sure didn't walk in the door, toss the salesman their Amex Black Card and say "I'll take that one." In many cases they wouldn't buy the item without getting a deal. Sure there are people that buy at full MSRP, but the bulk of buyers even in high end consumer goods want to feel that they got a deal.

    As for the factors that caused prices to rise...its all of the above. And actually, prices really started to take off around 2001/2002 Companies took notice that Franck Muller was charging for a steel watch with ETA movements roughly what companies like Patek, VC, and AP were charging for higher quality gold dress watches, and he was making good sales numbers. Most decided they had undervalued their products and systematically started raising prices, even when watches remained the same, no R&D was going into them, and back then gold prices were no where near what they are today. Back in the 1990s prices had remained fairly stable for years. At least in recent years companies have been able to blame the increase in MSRP to the increase in the cost of matterials (gold, platinum) and transportation costs for their more recent increases.
     


  12. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Classic! A really beauty. Thanks for sharing some photos.
     


  13. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Yes, a very cool peice of Rolex history. Still, I just don't value having the word Comex on it enough to pay the insane premium it results in on an otherwise standard Sub or SD. For that kind of money...I'll be looking for a pristine condition manual wind Daytona.
    Yes, just wanted to be sure you knew it wasn't a limited edition, but a commissioned piece. Still, with all of the completely stupid and useless limited editions that come out from lots of companies anything is possible.

    Companies will never completely kill off their AD network. Its not cost effective for them to open boutiques in less important regions. In addition, groupings of smaller regions can add up to a large market. They can have a presence there with less overhead by leaving ADs operating in moderate to smaller areas. Here in the US, the boutiques generally open in NYC, Vegas, Bal Harbor/Miami, Beverly Hills...but there is a huge market to capture in between the boutiques.
     


  14. Hayward

    Hayward Senior member

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  15. bluetree110

    bluetree110 Senior member

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    I actually bought this watch new only a month ago. Zenith's new lines are vastly improved in terms of appearance in my opinion. Their new aesthetics, coupled with the history and movement makes them an excellent choice for the price-point (4-10k).
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013


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