The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Appreciation Thread (Bespoke only)

[DWFII]



Sorry guys, I know you're in a middle of a discussion

but a Seamless wholecut with hatchgrained leather inside out? wow congrats

The photos are really deceptive/confusing, esp when blown up like that. It doesn't look like hatchgrain to me. And I don't know why the maker would pay for hatchgrain and then turn it inside out....only to be covered by the lining.

I thought the person who posted this shoe said the lining was hatchgrain? But that doesn't make a lot of sense either given that hatchgrain would, presumably be both thicker and more expensive than a good veg tanned lining.

 

[JermynStreet]

Has anyone ever seen/thought of using Zebra shell on shoes? How do the properties of zebra leather compare to that of horse leather? Is Zebra shell as good as horse shell?

 

[DWFII]



Has anyone ever seen/thought of using Zebra shell on shoes? How do the properties of zebra leather compare to that of horse leather? Is Zebra shell as good as horse shell?

Why would zebra be any better than horse? I don't think there would be much difference in the shell...except for the deep gouges left behind by unsuccessful lionesses...but it would be a lot more expensive to harvest and produce.

 

[bengal-stripe]



I thought the person who posted this shoe said the lining was hatchgrain? But that doesn't make a lot of sense either given that hatchgrain would, presumably be both thicker and more expensive than a good veg tanned lining.

That's what the poster said originally, then he corrected himself: only the 'sock' is in hatchgrain.

BTW, the shoe is also fully hatch-grain lined.

sorry, I only mean full hatch-grain insole.

Nevertheless there is a tradition in English bespoke shoes that the back-lining (but not the front lining) is made of upper leather. Cleverley lined for years the back of their 'Reindeer' shoes with upper leather. In recent years they restricted themselves only to the 'sock'

(although one poster stated recently, he got them to make the back lining in Reindeer Hide as well.

The photos are really deceptive/confusing, esp when blown up like that. It doesn't look like hatchgrain to me. And I don't know why the maker would pay for hatchgrain and then turn it inside out....only to be covered by the lining.

It doesn't look very hatch-grain due to the fact that the extensive manipulation of the wet leather, required for a seamless shoe, tends to considerably soften the grain texture. The leather has not been used in reverse.

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-lu...girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-lu...tisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-5-the-fitting/

 

[jerrybrowne]



Nevertheless there is a tradition in English bespoke shoes that the back-lining (but not the front lining) is made of upper leather. Cleverley lined for years the back of their 'Reindeer' shoes with upper leather. In recent years they restricted themselves only to the 'sock'

Actually find the half sock liner annoying, esp, since I often find glue on the forefoot of the insole. I had to specifically request full sock liners.

 

[add911_11]



Haha mine is full lined insole, I requested it. I have heard you can also ask for full leather insole in RTW.

 

[add911_11]



Sorry guys, I know you're in a middle of a discussion

but a Seamless wholecut with hatchgrained leather inside out? wow congrats

the upper is actually hatch-grain, just bad camera sorry.
The leather have been polished by them so it appears to be very smooth.

 

[add911_11]



I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but that's mine...and the reason I don't use a tack.

thanks for those words, I now will ask the lack of pin-hole specifically for my next bespoke project.

this is my first whole cut bespoke, I didn't realise the hole until you guys tell me.

At the end, I am still very happy of the product, I now understand why they charge more than George Cleverley.

 

[add911_11]

a few more pictures

 

[poorsod]



thanks for those words, I now will ask the lack of pin-hole specifically for my next bespoke project. this is my first whole cut bespoke, I didn't realise the hole until you guys tell me. At the end, I am still very happy of the product, I now understand why they charge more than George Cleverley.

*sigh* This is from earlier in the SAME THREAD.

Gaziano & Girling Tokyo Trunk Show Summer 2010 Work in progress TEASER. The seamless single stitch whole cut.

​

Originally Posted by cdmoore1855

Why are there holes in the back of the shoes ?
Tony Gaziano explains: The pin holes at the back are for lasting reasons. If we don't secure the backs when we last the front of the shoes, they will slide down, giving a low back height. The pins are normally nailed through the stitching line so that they are camouflaged, but in this case there is no stitching. I am exploring a different way of doing it, so as to hide them. He also noted that upon completion, the hole is sealed and concealed. How this is achieved, I don't know. Gaz

 

[add911_11]

I copied it from Gaz, I must confess that. However, I only hope he doesn't mind.

 

[nutcracker]



a few more pictures

very very nice. you should take some glamour shots before you start wearing them
love the hg full socks....

 

[chogall]



*sigh*

This is from earlier in the SAME THREAD.

Either way, there are ways to avoid the tacking. But my guess is not all out workers are aware of it.

 

[DWFII]



Either way, there are ways to avoid the tacking. But my guess is not all out workers are aware of it.

Speculating now, but if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing, G&G are lining these shoes in a rather unique fashion. The lining appears to be sewn to the folded edge of the topline, before the edge is folded. I'm not entirely sure how this is done but it results in both the upper and the lining having folded edges and no stitching apparent around the topline.

It's not just this pair of shoes, I've seen it before and admired the technique. But it does not leave any place to put a tack...if a tack is to be used...except in the upper itself.

On most shoes the topline edge of the lining would be cut/trimmed after the topline had been sewn. This approach affords the extra margin of lining leather you mentioned so that any tacks can be placed in that margin. Slip-on/loafers are commonly done this way. And it's a good approach if, for some reason, you can't or won't lasts "seats up."

Again, I suspect lasting "seats up" would address the issues of the heel slipping out of position while lasting. But if the shoes are being lasted with a lasting machine, then "seats up" is problematic, not only because it requires an extra amount of human attention...and skilled attention at that...but, in all likelihood, the drafting stroke of the machine will not be able to be adjusted to compensate.

 

[DWFII]



Nevertheless there is a tradition in English bespoke shoes that the back-lining (but not the front lining) is made of upper leather. Cleverley lined for years the back of their 'Reindeer' shoes with upper leather. In recent years they restricted themselves only to the 'sock'

Yes, I've seen that and done that. I was hoping that it was not "a Tradition in English bespoke" work. But I suppose that it is one way, at least, to get rid of excess upper leather that cannot be used anywhere else because it is too soft or loose fibered. No maker in his right mind will cut the linings from the heart of the hide unless he's cutting a dedicated lining leather.

The problem, as I see it, is two-fold--First, as mentioned, the linings will then be effectively "scraps." I'm not against using scraps, mind you, but the back part of the shoe gets the most use and abuse. It seems unwise and perhaps even a little short-sighted to short the shoe in that area.

On the other hand, a good grade of English lining kip can sometimes be as, or even more, expensive than the upper leather.

Second...and consistent with the first...English lining kip is a natural ivory colour. It will never stain socks. Even the best leathers in the world, if they are dyed, can have some residual dyestuffs that, depending on the location on the hide, can bleed. And sometimes it just depends on dye lot--one lot will be well fixed and the next not so much. ELK's are veg tanned as well, and thus any chance of irritation form migrating chrome salts is minimized.

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