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Mod to Suedehead

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    ^ I'd instinctively say (relatively early) revivalists cause there's something a little bit too studied/self-aware about their tough guy pose. As well as something too uniformly 'skinhead' w/o any hint at past and future stages of the evolving look.

    Never seen the picture, though, so I might be completely wrong.

    Edit: Also, the cardy on the right looks more like a waffle-knit 'skinhead cardy' from the 80s rather than, say, a St Michael one from the 60s. Not that I can really tell given the size and quality...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
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  2. covskin

    covskin Senior member

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    ^^ to me the bloke in the middle looks punk not skinhead, something of a 'West German army surplus' look to him so guessing 1978/79 or later for him and 1980/81 or earlier for the others. Just missing his spikey hair!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  3. LeviStubbsTears

    LeviStubbsTears Active Member

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    After 7 years my trusty 1460's are finally going to be retired as the soles are basically completely smooth. All this time they've been my go-to footwear option, and while I'm pretty satisfied with how long the MIC option lasted I'm interested in investing in a better option this time. I've narrowed my options down to the Solovair 11-eye Hawkins and DM Vintage 1460. I'm leaning towards the Hawkins as I think its time for a change and I like its sleeker look and especially the stitch-less welt. The problem is that they both have contrast stitching on the upper. I'm worried that as the stitches are synthetic they won't really absorb cream or wax and just turn a pinkish color? Am I wrong in this assumption, or is there something I could do to darken the stitches without staining the leather?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  4. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    I can tell you that they were worn in 1969 down in S E London. Some guys even had them in late 68, unless I'm much mistaken.
     
  5. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    Absolutely not!
     
  6. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    This is surely because a) we didn't get our pictures taken all that much, and b) when we did (by the media) it wasn't when we were dressed to go out of an evening.

    I know that, exceptionally, I was photographed quite a lot, but I was always short of money and had to save up for a crombie, which I did in fact buy fairly late on. I had my sheepskin before that, of course.
     
  7. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    The first thing to say about the wearing of Crombies in the late 60s, is that they were more often than not made by another company. Of course, we understood that but referred to them as Crombies nonetheless.

    It is absolute bollocks to say they were not worn by skins in the late 60s. I got my first one from Mintz and Davis in Romford in the autumn of 1967. I can pinpoint the season pretty precisely as my parents came with me on a Saturday to buy it for me - a hugely exciting day , as you can imagine. A year later I was working on Saturdays and also had enough dosh by then to have bought one myself.

    Regrettably, I have no pics of it but can, of course, confirm that my hair was by then in 'a skinhead crop' as this May / June 1967 image shows:

    [​IMG]


    My 'Crombie', like most at the time was navy and it was mainly worn without a jacket under it as it fitted fairly snug. So, going out in the evening to Ilford Palais, for example, I would typically wear a short mac over my suit.

    Crombies, as M-o-M says, were commonplace by 1968 / 69 and worn on the terraces quite as much as sheepies.

    By A/W 1969 / 70 they were gradually falling out of favour and by the following autumn had more or less gone.

    M-o-M we need the book to set the records straight[​IMG]
     
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  8. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    Thanks to originals M-o-M and Mr Knightley for their input on this hotly debated topic. Now, what can you tell us about the 'correct' length of the crombie back in the day, gents?
     
  9. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  10. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    You look very much like your dad, Mr Knigthley. Great picture!
     
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  11. roytonboy

    roytonboy Senior member

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    I'm a little surprised at your turn of phrase here, Mr. K, I would have expected a more balanced statement from you.

    For those unfamiliar with the publication, here is the full paragraph from Nick Knight's book, 'Skinhead':

    "The 'Crombie' is usually considered the skinhead coat - but only in the broadest sense of the word 'skinhead' can this be accepted. Skinhead haircuts & Crombies missed each other by the better part of a year and 'Crombie boys' as they became known often had shoulder length hair. The first time I ever saw a skinhead haircut and a Crombie on the same person was in 1978 or 9."

    When I read this, many years after the event, it struck me as accurate as I remembered it. In fact, the 'Meet the Crombie Boys' article in the Sunday Times in the spring of 1971 was the first time most of us had ever heard of a Crombie, let alone knew what it looked like.It was after this article that they started to catch on, becoming THE coat to wear, nationwide, by the autumn of 1971 when most lads of our culture were wearing their hair a bit longer than a crop. At this time I was travelling all over the North and the Midlands watching football and seeing pretty much the same picture wherever I went. I don't recall seeing a Crombie before the end of season 1970/71, by season 1971/72 they were everywhere. This is why any photographs of Crombies from that era show them being worn by lads with longer hair. Note that I am not using the term, "absolute bollocks" in response to your statement that "By A/W they were gradually falling out of favour and by the following Autumn had more or less gone" I just recognise that your experience is different to mine.

    With reference to the book setting the record straight, this is not the first occasion when I have had reservations that 'the book', should it ever hit the shelves of W. H. Smith, will bear little resemblance to my experience of being a skinhead between 1969 and 1971
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
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  12. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    Well, I can soften my tone if that is more acceptable, @roytonboy , but I still disagree completely with that passage from the book for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post.

    You say 'I just recognise that your experience is different to mine. ' Obviously that is true, and I wasn't really delving into that in making my remarks. I must admit I have never read the complete book so cannot comment on it in general terms, but the sweeping statement made in the passage quoted is so wrong.

    Going back to @Bela Kun and his question about the correct length of Crombies I would say, in keeping with the classic style of the coat, they sat just on or above the knee depending on personal preference.

    This has become a 'hotly-debated' topic and I guess tempers might fray a bit...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
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  13. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    The earliest original era crombie images known to me are those in Bronco Bullfrog, which I think was shot in late 1969.

    Covskin is right - no velvet collar, although there does seem to be a ticket pocket? Maybe the originals will remember to what extent these details varied.

    Just to add some fuel to the fire, though, I can't help but notice that the kids who wear crombies in the movie hardly sport 'skinhead' haircuts. Those who do wear their hair cropped short are sporting Harringtons.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  14. Donkey Jacket

    Donkey Jacket Senior member

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    I've always thought crombies go better with longer hair IMHO, think it compliments the coat better then a straight crop.

    This picture shows differing length of them.

    [​IMG]

    Then there is this one, just above the knee i think

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  15. Kingstonian

    Kingstonian Senior member

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    I would have to agree with Mr. K., Crombies were worn when I was at school in the late 60s.

    As he points out, it was a generic term - not brand specific. Velvet collars I did not see. Coats were usually around knee length.

    Sheepskins were a more expensive item altogether than a generic Crombie.

    Leaving a coat in cloakroom - even one with attendants - was a fraught experience.
     
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  16. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    Were they worn in combination with skinhead crops? Maybe it's a style issue rather than a time period one.
     
  17. Kingstonian

    Kingstonian Senior member

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    Yes. 'Crop' being the operative word. More had scissor cut hair than machined to a number styles. Crops were for smarter types. Machined hair and razor partings were more for gang member types.
     
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  18. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    Agree with almost all that @Kingstonian says here.

    I suppose most of my mates were at the 'softer' end of the skinhead spectrum with a crop, which was fashioned by my barber using 'a bat'. It was like a tapered table tennis bat with cut-outs, which he used with scissors and / or clippers. Because the bat was tapered he could vary the length of the barnet to suit individual tastes. My hair rarely got much shorter than the pic of 1967.

    A friend of mine with the unlikely name of Delfus le Francois (who was a tea-taster BTW) however liked his hair very short - perhaps a no. 1 or 2. He wore a Crombie and smarter clothes happily with that short style.

    I am not sure how much credence 'The Way We Wore' retains but I was struck by a number of 'truths' among some of the more questionable content. In particular, I remember Robert Elms stating the importance for the skinhead in 1969 in having two distinct uniforms - the one for Saturday night, for weddings and for court appearances and the other for the terraces and general knocking around.

    I can relate to that and there was therefore always some cross-over between the harder and softer skinhead styles. Indeed, being required to master both formal and casual types of dressing could be said to be an important legacy of that great time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
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  19. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

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    It's interesting that you refer to original skinhead as a spectrum ranging from hard to soft. Those of us who weren't there tend to imagine that unlike today, there was only one 'classic skinhead' archetype in the 60s. But I always suspected there were different types and shades of skinhead even then - and not just because of regional differences either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  20. Mr Knightley

    Mr Knightley Senior member

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    I am not sure if @bunty still posts here?

    This is a pic provided by his brother showing Butlins at Filey in 1968. We see a large group of later mods and emerging skins all from SE England (IIRC) and sporting a range of styles from the hard to the soft(er).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
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