Mod to Suedehead

[roytonboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/mods-and-rockers-rebooted

On tonight - Friday, 22nd.

My drinking buddy, Professor Keith Gildart had a hand in this. Reckons it's worth a watch.

Catch it on BBC iPlayer if you can't make it.

His bio: http://www.wlv.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=15809

Thanks Ed. - really enjoyed it.

 

[Inks]

Cheers Ed, enjoyed that. The Beeb has done some pretty good docs recently. Two Northern Soul ones, and two Mods/Rockers '64 ones. And without the usual-suspect talking-heads for a change.

 

[Ed Vaughan]

Met Prof Keith tonight - with his sister - and told him the prog was met with an element of aprobition by you guys... which I reckon he appreciated.

FTR: I like - sort of - how Phil Daniels mention how he was the 'good-lookin' young star of Quardraphinea... aye, right, kid.

Not a bad film; not quite of 'the day' but none the less, a great projection of how I remember things back in the day.

MoM is way-more astute and tuned-in than me, so I acknowledge his take on things, which is why, if he can be arsed, he should, perhaps hook-up wi' Keith and do the book fing - or not?

Glad those who saw it - and enjoyed it - took something from it.

Thanks, folks.

Ed.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



MoM is way-more astute and tuned-in than me, so I acknowledge his take on things, which is why, if he can be arsed, he should, perhaps hook-up wi' Keith and do the book fing - or not?

The bit in the film about press blokes paying kids to stage trouble resonated. Back in 69 'Skinhead beats up immigrant' sold papers, 'Skinhead helps pregnant immigrant woman carry laundry' wasn't.

Where was I? Oh yes. The Book. Well it's still in progress, and still a damn sight slower than I had hoped. I smurfed out some of the transcription work. Ed, if you think it is a good idea to get Prof. Gildart involved somehow, I'm certainly prepared to hear some ideas.

One of the biggest tasks will be sorting out the copyright of various photos.

 

[browniecj]

I loved Trilbies(still do).Had one for ages,then sold it to a Mate who wore it even longer.

 

[browniecj]



Gill Evans original mod with the new book 'Sawdust Caesars: Original Mod Voices'

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=678171272260156&set=gm.555870264518749&type=1&theater

Still looks "Cracking" now.Well done Gill.

 

[roytonboy]

WHAT'S IN A NAME?

I have recently had a couple of discussions where people said that they had been 'Suedeheads'. The comments were both made by the individuals to underline their identity as something separate and, by inference, different from 'skinhead'. As someone who was both a skinhead and suedehead, this was not a point of view I have encountered before. (with the exception of the experience recounted below)

The term 'suedehead' is a bit of an odd one, not being widely known to the public at large - if you say "I used to be a skinhead", people have an idea of what you mean (it's likely to be inaccurate but an idea none-the-less), if you say the word "Mod", again people have some concept but the word "suedehead" usually draws a blank. Those who do know, however, usually have a very good idea of what you are talking about.

Just as we have discussed on this forum about the distinctions between mod and skinhead being blurred, I feel the same about skinhead and suedehead. For instance, at what point did I stop being a skinhead and start being a suedehead? I don't think that I ever made that decision. In late 1971 I was stood with two mates on the North Stand at Maine Road, we were all wearing crombies. I heard a voice behind us say, "Here's some of those suedeheads that hate us skinheads" and in an instant Charlie was pushed in the back and his hat snatched off his head. We turned to see four older lads giving us some threatening verbals. The funny thing was, though one of them was a bonehead, my hair was shorter than all of the others, yet they saw themselves as skinheads and us as suedeheads. I couldn't swear to it but I was probably still wearing Levi's and Doc Marten's so, other than the crombie, I was more 'skinhead' than most of them. I'm not sure how but we managed to engage them in conversation, Charlie got his hat back and the event passed off without violence but I found it a strange and rather unpleasant incident. (I blame this episode on the book "Suedehead" by Richard Allen which was out at the time - the front cover being the only thing anywhere near accurate about it from our point of view) As an aside, I still occasionally see that bonehead at City matches these days and he is still a very, very rough looking bloke.

I would be interested to hear other peoples' views on the subject - unless I'm mistaken, some of our number will have regarded themselves as suedeheads (elwood and cerneabbas spring to mind). Did anyone else make the transition from skinhead to suedehead? If so, did you regard one as a development of the other or the two as quite separate? As ever, I'm sure there will be differences in location and time and even in interpretation of the name.

 

[Ed Vaughan]



WHAT'S IN A NAME?

I have recently had a couple of discussions where people said that they had been 'Suedeheads'. The comments were both made by the individuals to underline their identity as something separate and, by inference, different from 'skinhead'. As someone who was both a skinhead and suedehead, this was not a point of view I have encountered before. (with the exception of the experience recounted below)

The term 'suedehead' is a bit of an odd one, not being widely known to the public at large - if you say "I used to be a skinhead", people have an idea of what you mean (it's likely to be inaccurate but an idea none-the-less), if you say the word "Mod", again people have some concept but the word "suedehead" usually draws a blank. Those who do know, however, usually have a very good idea of what you are talking about.

Just as we have discussed on this forum about the distinctions between mod and skinhead being blurred, I feel the same about skinhead and suedehead. For instance, at what point did I stop being a skinhead and start being a suedehead? I don't think that I ever made that decision. In late 1971 I was stood with two mates on the North Stand at Maine Road, we were all wearing crombies. I heard a voice behind us say, "Here's some of those suedeheads that hate us skinheads" and in an instant Charlie was pushed in the back and his hat snatched off his head. We turned to see four older lads giving us some threatening verbals. The funny thing was, though one of them was a bonehead, my hair was shorter than all of the others, yet they saw themselves as skinheads and us as suedeheads. I couldn't swear to it but I was probably still wearing Levi's and Doc Marten's so, other than the crombie, I was more 'skinhead' than most of them. I'm not sure how but we managed to engage them in conversation, Charlie got his hat back and the event passed off without violence but I found it a strange and rather unpleasant incident. (I blame this episode on the book "Suedehead" by Richard Allen which was out at the time - the front cover being the only thing anywhere near accurate about it from our point of view) As an aside, I still occasionally see that bonehead at City matches these days and he is still a very, very rough looking bloke.

I would be interested to hear other peoples' views on the subject - unless I'm mistaken, some of our number will have regarded themselves as suedeheads (elwood and cerneabbas spring to mind). Did anyone else make the transition from skinhead to suedehead? If so, did you regard one as a development of the other or the two as quite separate? As ever, I'm sure there will be differences in location and time and even in interpretation of the name.

For me, it was a seemless transition.

I never woke up one morning thinking: today, I'm going to be a suedehead. Like most - I would imagine - it just happened, a bit like suddenly finding you'd grown pubes.

It was an evolution that came about because of the people we saw (I was never a trend-setter) wearing gear we fancied. And, what was available to buy.

In contrast, I did wake up one day and think: today, I'm off to the barbers to have my hair cropped and opt for the skinhead look.

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

[The Saint]



Catching it now.

Collings at 7:29 still looks cool for an old geezer.

"These long-haired, mentally unstable petty little sawdust Caesars..." I remember how much I loathed and hated Dr. George Simpson, even though I was only a wannabe mod at the time. I just hated him for this attitude to young people, whether it was justifiable under the circs or not.

I think I've said this before, but it's worth saying again, that the press and the older generation back then didn't think of 'mods' and rockers', but of a mass of terrifying youngsters called 'modsandrockers'. When it came to 69 and skinheads, it was a bit different - we looked kinda mod, went to the same seaside places, got into rucks, but although the press tried to make something of skinheads vs greasers, skinheads vs Hell's Angels, there were never enough bikers around to turn 69 into the new 64. It was never 'skinheadsandgreasers'.

I think I've said this before too - most of the local mods/skins and rockers/greasers were people you knew anyway, and most of the trouble was likely to be territorial, people you didn't know who came from somewhere else.

Yeh , thought the Paul Anderson guy was quite cool also and seemed to know what he was talking about.

Overall though , I didn't think there was anything new in the show , even all the footage that we saw had been wheeled to us before in recent years . We got to hear from a couple of different geezers and one particular old greeser was allowed to tell us that scooters were built for girls ! They should've had him reiterate that in some busy high street , somewhere in Northern Italy ,.

One thing I was reminded of during the show , was the number of people who smoked back in the day compared to nowadays . It reminds one that today smoking is a much more of an underground activity than say , being a Mod was in 1964'ish Britian was . .

 

[flyfronted]

I always thought it was Skinhead wore bovver boots while suede heads wore gentlemens shoes ..

 

[Mr Knightley]

I can't be certain but I feel suedehead is one of those terms (like hard mod) to have been applied at some point after the event.

Whatever, I was one who went through the transition starting during 1970. I think Roy said it happened for him at the time of Mungo Jerry's In the Summertime and I wouldn't argue with that. As others have said, it was really a bit seamless and I guess we still thought of ourselves as skinheads for some time after the hair started growing and the clothes started becoming a little more French-inspired. I have said before that my transition, if that's what it was, was sort of complete by early to mid 1971. I have shown this pic before of me in early autumn 1971, still wearing clothes from the Squire Shop and others of that ilk but the clothes have moved on almost beyond belief in just over a year.




I recall no issue with skins and suedes as everyone I met moved on at about the same pace.

I know there is the regional variation thing and I know I struggle with that but my view of the suedehead (in my area at least) is that he quickly abandoned the Crombie (replaced by late 71 with a French style of coat or mac from Village Gate, say), the BD, the mohair and the Royals. To me they are all associated with the latter days of skinhead / early suedehead. Then of course there is the term 'smooth'. Was that ever a current term or another we have applied later to try to make sense of the evolution of the suedehead?

 

[Mr Knightley]

I always thought it was Skinhead wore bovver boots while suede heads wore gentlemens shoes ..

Round my way the skinhead wore boots and shoes including 'gentleman's shoes' like Royal brogues, smooths and gibsons. Before Royals (which we adopted in 1969) it was the elusive Solatio Italian inspired shoe.

Again in my experience the suedehead (from mid 1970) would have been sporting a range of footwear including Royal smooths and gibsons (brogues had fallen out of favour), penny loafers and tassels, moving quickly on to Stephen Topper's shoes in a variety of styles. Just my experience.

Others?

 

[browniecj]

"Suedehead" was another name given to us by the Media.All I know was,I grew my Hair because I did not want to be associated with the term Skinhead anymore.It had passed its time-and like all Fashion Phases became unfashionable.Most of the others adopted the same idea,hence the rise of "The Boot Boys".Suedeheads still wore the DMs as it was the start of the Football Firms(ICF being one of them).I still wore DMs but that was to work,so the DM Story had gone full circle.

 

[browniecj]

It was interesting to see some of the Originals (Mods and Rockers) talking about the Bank Holidays.Steve Barrow is featured in the "Mod" Book through some photos taken of him-on Scooters.Of course,the social climate of Britain always comes up-by the so-called experts.Even though only one Professor was old enough to have lived then(and he was an old Biker).The youngsters in those days could not give a blind fck about what was happening in their Country.They wanted a good time.I found Phil Daniels voice grating at times.......

 

[The Saint]

I think I read once , like everyone else no doubt , that the term skinhead was coin roped by an MP and then promoted by the press . You know , it could never be just , youths , it had to be such and such . You had to have a label for 'em. .

I don't remember the first time I heard the term skinhead but I was certainly aware of the look before the term. Suedehead , was maybe a bit different because I recall a guy who hung out with us being called "suede" on account of his hair style . I believe that guy is still called suede by those , whom , know him we'll. .

My recollection of the look , is that guys wore the gear but usually had the more sort of conventional hairstyle as sported by mr Knightly in his photo. Those slip overs were omni-present I thought back then but it is still a good photo.

I remember in the summer of '75 having a conversation about which hairdressers would / could do the right cut . When we went back to school , it was all about brogues or Weeguns worn in the correct manner (you had to have loads of Seggs all over them a walk into premises as if you were going to annex Poland). You had to have the right brogues too , not Royals but ones called Coasters, which were more of a conventional type brogue as apposed to a long wing.

By '76 , the punk thing was starting to raise it's ugly head and then by '78 the Mod thing was back but now you had the "skins" and the punks to deal with , never mind the ones that fancied themselves as latter day greesers. .