Tell Me About Law School

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

You are exposed to a wide array of ideas and inventions in a certain technology, you're required to pick the inventor's brain to understand what it is he/she wants to protect, and you argue with the Patent Office why your client should get the protection. This can even extend to IP portfolio management where you are advising clients regarding IP strategy and ways to compete in the marketplace. Granted, it takes a certain personality to do this sort of job, but the same thing can be said about any profession. If you don't want to litigate and deal with corporate transactions, I don't see how this is boring or monotonous for someone who likes patent law. If you don't care for the practice area, of course it would suck.

To expand on what I said: I would think that it would be a bad job for someone that did not like it, but went through the whole process of attending and graduating from law school. Of course if some one purposely went into it that's one thing, but if someone choose to follow that path because they could not think of what else to do, that is quite another, and as I read it, the advice was referring to the latter.

Jon.

 

[NoVaguy]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Lately I've spent a lot of time working with our corporate IP lawyer on my patents, and in speaking with him have become interested in IP law to the extent that I am seriously considering it as a possibility for my future career. I like the idea of being able to use my BSME degree and knowledge of engineering in a way that I wouldn't if I went MBA and into a pure business or finance position. Law would almost certainly put me in a better financial position than continuing in the engineering track with an M. Eng degree and possibly getting into an engineering management job in a decade or so. I would also be free of getting that M. Eng, which will be a three year misery that I have been dreading.

Of course I'm going to do much research and if I go this way it will be a year to 18 mos. out. But I am looking for some information about law school (and to a lesser extent life as a lawyer) - what should I be thinking about, are there any special admissions pitfalls, can you ever get any funding, what schools would you recommend, and the great question, what do you now know that you wish you knew? Certainly any other wisdom you wish to pass along I am happy to hear.

The only thing I do know is that the LSAT will determine my fate.

Lay it on me, gents.

I have a BSE, MSE, and am current in my 3rd year of 4 at the GWU night program in DC - while working for the USPTO during the day. I'll probably slide into IP law on the other side - I've already taken and passed the Patent Registration Exam (aka the Patent Bar), so I can easily start with patent prosecution, and then into litigation or licensing. One nice perk of the PTO is that after two years of service, the PTO will pay for your tuition, but there's a service commitment involved (the time calculation formula is rather complicated, but basically - if you have them pay for all the classes, you'll owe about 20 months). One negative of the perk - no summer internships that will get you a nice start on your career at a firm.

Night school while working at the PTO is not a bad way to go, as long as there is no Mrs. Huntsman (or Mrs. Huntsman is understanding). The job would correlates rather well with your likely future career, and you'll get an in-depth understanding of the prosecution side of the patent business.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

To expand on what I said: I would think that it would be a bad job for someone that did not like it, but went through the whole process of attending and graduating from law school. Of course if some one purposely went into it that's one thing, but if someone choose to follow that path because they could not think of what else to do, that is quite another, and as I read it, the advice was referring to the latter.

Jon.

Largely true, but then again many people find law school and/or practicing for a few years a good path to something else.

 

[Piobaire]

Has anyone had a classmate that was a geezer? If so, why were they there and how did they handle the program? I am 36 and plan to retire at 50-55. I have half-baked thoughts of going back to law school for something to do when I retire. Not sure if I'll really work in the profession, would get hired, or would want to work new lawyer hours (which I will assume are like the hours I did pre and fresh out of b-school, like 80+ a week). Not sure if any law school gives AARP discounts either

It's just an idea I kick around from time to time and wouldn't mind hearing about anyone's experience with a geezer in l-school.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Has anyone had a classmate that was a geezer? If so, why were they there and how did they handle the program? I am 36 and plan to retire at 50-55. I have half-baked thoughts of going back to law school for something to do when I retire. Not sure if I'll really work in the profession, would get hired, or would want to work new lawyer hours (which I will assume are like the hours I did pre and fresh out of b-school, like 80+ a week). Not sure if any law school gives AARP discounts either

It's just an idea I kick around from time to time and wouldn't mind hearing about anyone's experience with a geezer in l-school.

You're going to be able to retire at 55? Please, sir, share your secrets.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Largely true, but then again many people find law school and/or practicing for a few years a good path to something else.

Business?

Jon.

 

[NoVaguy]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Is it me or does that sound like an insanely monotonous job?

Jon.

Not really, because most of the time you don't do the same inventive concept or work with the same people. So you get quite a variety. One day you might be working on shoe technology, another on semiconductors, and then the next on automobile technology. You might be drafting an application, working on responses on PTO positions, drafting amendments, consulting with inventors, or doing interviews, or researching prior art (i.e., previous inventions) - although the last one frequently gets contracted out.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

You're going to be able to retire at 55? Please, sir, share your secrets.

No secrets. Deferred gratification, living within (or better yet below) your means, and a certain period of your life, about a decade, where you bust your hump endlessly to get high enough up the ladder that the hump busters answer to you

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Has anyone had a classmate that was a geezer? If so, why were they there and how did they handle the program? I am 36 and plan to retire at 50-55. I have half-baked thoughts of going back to law school for something to do when I retire. Not sure if I'll really work in the profession, would get hired, or would want to work new lawyer hours (which I will assume are like the hours I did pre and fresh out of b-school, like 80+ a week). Not sure if any law school gives AARP discounts either

It's just an idea I kick around from time to time and wouldn't mind hearing about anyone's experience with a geezer in l-school.

One of my favorite classmates was in that situation. He was an MD, had practiced for years and gotten tired of it. He had put his sons through law school and had always been interested in law. His sons basically came to him and said, "Dad, you put us through school and now it's time for us to do the same for you." He really seemed to enjoy being there, largely (I believe) because he didn't need to be there.

He intended to work after graduation, but I lost track of him and so don't know exactly what he did.

By the way, new lawyer hours are comparable to b-school grad hours only if you go to some BigLaw firm. I suspect that in the situation you're contemplating that would not be the best way to go, not only because of the hours but because you'd likely spend several years doing menial crap. Especially if you're not locked into making a top-of-market salary to pay off loans or whatever, there likely will be no shortage of other job opportunities that would offer gentler hours and more job satisfaction.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

One of my favorite classmates was in that situation. He was an MD, had practiced for years and gotten tired of it. He had put his sons through law school and had always been interested in law. His sons basically came to him and said, "Dad, you put us through school and now it's time for us to do the same for you." He really seemed to enjoy being there, largely (I believe) because he didn't need to be there.

He intended to work after graduation, but I lost track of him and so don't know exactly what he did.

By the way, new lawyer hours are comparable to b-school grad hours only if you go to some BigLaw firm. I suspect that in the situation you're contemplating that would not be the best way to go, not only because of the hours but because you'd likely spend several years doing menial crap. Especially if you're not locked into making a top-of-market salary to pay off loans or whatever, there likely will be no shortage of other job opportunities that would offer gentler hours and more job satisfaction.

Thanks for the answer. Good to know it's only BigLaw that requires those types of hours. I figure I will probably head into my current area and leverage my (then) past career knowledge. Like I say, it's just one of those things I kick around, not sure the economics would make sense (tuition vs. likely life time pay back in wages) or that I'll really have the desire to do it at that point. Maybe I'd just use it to teach "Philosophy of Law" to undergrads at some po-dunk community college.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Maybe I'd just use it to teach "Philosophy of Law" to undergrads at some po-dunk community college.

That'd be me! Kick ass!

 

[DNW]

There was one guy in his 50s in my law school last year. I don't know what happened to him this year. I suppose he woke up one day and thought to himself: why the **** am I putting myself through this craziness?

 

[crazyquik]

I pretty much agree with everything that's been said.

It's a very competitive profession and there will be a lot of pressure to perform as a student and later on as a lawyer. Don't let it stress you out and don't think that you're a failure unless you get into a top school, graduate at the top of your class, get an internship at a major firm, etc. There is a lot more to the profession than being a big-shot at a major firm.

Sadly, this is pretty much me and a lot of people I know.

Otherwise:
Most classes are taught using the Socratic method. Some teachers are more hardcore about it than others (one of mine randomly picked students and made them stand and speak without using notes for about a half hour on a given case, if you didn't know what you were talking about you were counted absent). Generally I think we read about 200 pages a week (some people read each case slowly and briefed it, others like me read each case about 3 times and took notes in the margins of the book, and some didn't read at all). So it's not like an undergraduate lecture where you can just show up and copy down notes from a powerpoint. The plus side is, class participation matters little in most classes but attendence is taken and supposedly required by the ABA.

Socially law school is like high school. You'll probably have 125-180ish people in your class and these people will all eventually know each other. Cliques form. Backs get stabbed. Some people there will have never had a job, others will be young dropouts from professional or corporate America, others will be recent military, and some will probably be 10+ year cops or military so about 30-35 years old.

At most schools, people don't flunk out if they honestly try. Much more people quit in the first two weeks, quit after the first semester, or quit after the first year than actually get kicked out.

Assigned reading is typically edited down versions of appellate opinions. You read them and have to tease out the rule of law, the legal issue, etc. Eventually you'll collect a lot of rules together into an outline, and then on the exam be given a 2 page fact pattern and you'll need to spot all the issues, apply the facts in the fact pattern and the legal rules you learned, and then write something down. Getting the 'right' answer isn't as important as spotting the issue, using the rule, and applying the facts.

I spent about 17 hours a day, 5 days a week, in the law school or the library or another library on campus. Saturdays I usually took off, and Sundays maybe just 12-14 hours. At that rate, once exams are over you're still so hyped up and wired that you can't relax!

You'll probably quit briefing cases for classes after the first week.

Start your outline early and work on it a little each weekend. That's a lot better than trying to make one the night of the exam. Commercial outlines get mixed reviews.

I sit in class with a laptop and type a lot. Sometimes transcribing what the prof says. I tried taking notes by hand but that wasn't cutting it. Later you can go back, print out your notes, and just highlite what is important.

Ok I need to go apply for some jobs.

 

[retronotmetro]

Originally Posted by Renault78law

Social life in law school is an interesting animal. You share your schedule with all the other students in your section, so you can get to know everyone pretty well. This is the reason many say law school is like high school. Given the student body, I'd say it was worse than high school.

It's like high school minus most of the jocks and all of the hot chicks.

 

[DNW]

Originally Posted by retronotmetro

It's like high school minus most of the jocks and all of the hot chicks.

Yes, and what remains forms itself into a self-copulating cesspool.

Generally, I just stay away from the law school for as much as I can. I made a few good friends after my first year, and we've since removed ourselves from the bottomless pit of gossip and filth that calls itself the class of 2008.