State of BIGLAW update (NYU 2L)

[crazyquik]

Originally Posted by luftvier

Alternatively, try Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc. Cheaper cost of living. Comparable salaries.

Philly is collapsing. Don't know about Boston. Washington, of course, is stable-to-good, but there is a lot of competition. Highest per capita lawyer city in the nation.

Also try Cleveland, Cincy, and Indy if their midwestern sensibilities don't offend you.

 

[cheessus]

Dude, I think I've given up on biglaw. I hated my summer, and realized that even if I do survive long enough to make partner, if I'm only a non-equity partner (?), I'm pretty much fucked anyway. I'm not exactly in the same boat as the OP in terms of job prospects, since the markets by my school isn't that bad, but I hear where he's coming from in terms of debt.

 

[ccffm1]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Don't expect advice from other law students. In true law school form, they are all too competitive to help you get a job that they are also seeking. And right now as you post, they are ripping pages out of books in the library

How naive of me to think that such kind of despicable and reckless behaviour was exclusive to German law students.

 

[luftvier]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Philly is collapsing. Don't know about Boston. Washington, of course, is stable-to-good, but there is a lot of competition. Highest per capita lawyer city in the nation.

Also try Cleveland, Cincy, and Indy if their midwestern sensibilities don't offend you.

Fair enough re: Philadelphia.

Why not try a mid-size or boutique firm? The salaries there are comparable, sometimes with better hours.

And maybe even consider public interest/gov't. Due to the Bush/Obama bill, if you survive 10 years, you get a huge amount of your loans forgiven, afaik.

 

[cheessus]

Originally Posted by luftvier

And maybe even consider public interest/gov't. Due to the Bush/Obama bill, if you survive 10 years, you get a huge amount of your loans forgiven, afaik.

Could someone explain this to me? From what I understand only the government loans are forgiven, not the private ones which account for a huge percentage of a $150-200k law school debt. I think that you can only get $20k per year in Federal loans, so it's only $60k. And during those 10 years, you have to make payments on all loans anyway on a $50-70k salary.

If this is way off base, someone let me know. kthx.

 

[airportlobby]

Cheesus - that's not entirely accurate. To qualify for loan forgivenes, you have to consolidate you federal loans with the a direct federal consolidation, and then make 120 payments in an income-contingent or income-sensitive plan, while working in an approved field (not just goverment, also non-profits, etc.). Because the payments are income contingent, they may be quite low. http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml Private loans cannot be forgiven. AFAIK. Also, the 120 payments do not need to be contiguous - you can leave public service and then return and get credit for your earlier stint. It really is a great deal. To the OP - I considered NYU and chose UT because the cost at NYU just seemed ludicrous and I knew I couldn't take a big firm. Law school debt truely can be a serious impediment to happiness. But don't drop out, unless you have another route to a professional degree - you're already deep in the hole. NYU has a public service loan repayment program, which, if combined with the federal loan forgiveness program could make public service an attractive option. You may find a passion for the law in public service; I know few big firm lawyers who really like what they're doing, and aside from the money, you haven't expressed any interest in the stuff that actually constitutes big firm work. You might want to spend your summer working for Legal Aid or a public defender or county atty and start your professional network that way. If you do go government or medium firm and become an expert in a field (while junior big law associates are learning nothing more than doc review), you can often lateral to big law later in your career. Finally, it isn't too late to raise your grades. If you show serious improvement, you may be able to get into a big firm position as a 3L.

 

[DNW]

Here's the state of BigLaw report for you: http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticl...n=1&hbxlogin=1. It's a ******* bloodbath! The NY market is not coming back anytime soon, especially for fresh grads. There's still a shitload of laid off 2-4 year associates still floating around.

 

[luftvier]

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

Here's the state of BigLaw report for you: http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticl...n=1&hbxlogin=1. It's a ******* bloodbath! The NY market is not coming back anytime soon, especially for fresh grads. There's still a shitload of laid off 2-4 year associates still floating around.
Bloodbath is the best word to describe it.

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Why do you find it funny that my life is imploding? *cries*

What's up with the sense of entitlement? You're at the bottom of your class - why do you think you should be paid $185k right out of school when you don't seem to know enough law to actually get good grades in law school? Maybe you should have tried to actually learn what they are teaching you before you go expecting to make $185k right out of school.

 

[Pelikan2]

Yeah, it's bad - particularly for people in your position. It's a combination of bad timing and bad grades. My guess is that the top 5-10% from T14 schools will probably be fine - though many will likely get jobs outside the normal top band of firms. Some real all-star personalities in the top 30% will also find their way into big NY firms. Others need to look very seriously at other markets - and not just Chicago, DC, Atlanta, LA, etc. Look at Philadelphia, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix - everywhere.

I'm a rising third year that worked for a firm that epitomizes NY BigLaw this summer. The firm is offering almost everyone, but the popular deferral programs mean the class of 2011 is virtually getting passed over. The firm told us they are hiring an extremely small class for next summer (like 1/10th the normal size), and it seems other firms are following suit. As someone with serious student loans, I really do feel bad for you 2011ers. It's going to be ugly.

That said, my firm was actually quite busy this summer, and it wasn't bullshit work. The corporate side is looking a lot better than just three months ago, according to the partners/associates I talked to.

 

[Huntsman]

I seriously and studiously studied law markets prior to my decision to enter law school in F09. A thought that immediately occurs to me is if it is possible to transfer to a different school, perhaps get some aid, but lower tuition, and get a job in another market -- lower your debt to be closer to what you anticipate you can earn.

More experienced posters should chime in though.

~ H

 

[Manhappenin]

Originally Posted by odoreater

What's up with the sense of entitlement? You're at the bottom of your class - why do you think you should be paid $185k right out of school when you don't seem to know enough law to actually get good grades in law school? Maybe you should have tried to actually learn what they are teaching you before you go expecting to make $185k right out of school.

Are you kidding me? I noted that I was upset about the fact that according the the numbers from career services, this would not be an issue 2003-2007, and that makes me entitled? Give me a break. I really don't see why you feel the need to go out of your way to talk ****. Whatever. Just another internet tough guy. Please proceed to google my sentence structure and point out grammatical errors and lol b/c I didn't proofread. I hope that makes you feel better.

 

[RJman]

nvm

 

[airportlobby]

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Are you kidding me? I noted that I was upset about the fact that according the the numbers from career services, this would not be an issue 2003-2007, and that makes me entitled? Give me a break. I really don't see why you feel the need to go out of your way to talk ****. Whatever. Just another internet tough guy. Please proceed to google my sentence structure and point out grammatical errors and lol b/c I didn't proofread. I hope that makes you feel better.

I've never understood why law schools feel entitled to take $100K from a bunch of young kids (bottom half of the class or whatever) that they are basically deluding and screwing, but whatever.

 

[HighSociety]

Should have gone to Harvard....