State of BIGLAW update (NYU 2L)

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RJman

Part of growing up is realizing that you are entitled to nothing. Nothing, no matter what you've done. No frozen foie gras, no $170K/year job, no bespoke wardrobe, nothing.

I would prefer not to.

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I would prefer not to.

Good thing you're not some braTTT whining about BIGLAW.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RJman

Good thing you're not some braTTT whining about BIGLAW.

Could be worse. I was forced to take work as a scrivener after being removed from my post at the Dead Letter Office.

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Could be worse. I was forced to take work as a scrivener after being removed from my post at the Dead Letter Office.

Casanova died a librarian.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RJman

Casanova died a librarian.

Did you see the miniseries with David Tennant?

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Did you see the miniseries with David Tennant?

Is he the Pet Shop Boy or the guy who married Elton John?

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RJman

Is he the Pet Shop Boy or the guy who married Elton John?

This picture makes the latter look like he just stepped out of WAYW. Complete with manbag, white trou, and 3 roll 2. That could be SF's new slogan: Dressing you like Elton John's husband.

I remember liking the miniseries, though there wasn't much to it. Worth a Netflix.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Could be worse. I was forced to take work as a scrivener after being removed from my post at the Dead Letter Office.

On the other hand, not eating makes you look good in 60s small lapels joints. Skinny jawns too, if you ever want to pick up some street cred.

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Are you kidding me? I noted that I was upset about the fact that according the the numbers from career services, this would not be an issue 2003-2007, and that makes me entitled? Give me a break. I really don't see why you feel the need to go out of your way to talk ****. Whatever. Just another internet tough guy. Please proceed to google my sentence structure and point out grammatical errors and lol b/c I didn't proofread. I hope that makes you feel better.

Again the sense of entitlement. So now, it's not your own fault that you don't know **** about law since you can't even do well on a simple law school exam, it's career services fault for not telling you that if you are a ****** law student, which means you might be a ****** lawyer, that you will not be getting paid $180k right out of school?

Here's a novel idea for you, why don't you start relying on yourself and blaming yourself for your own failures instead of making excuses? Maybe you just weren't cut out to be a lawyer, that's not NYU's fault, that's not career services' fault, that's your fault.

 

[crazyquik]

Success in law school is not entirely determinative of success in practice. Joe Jamail only managed to pass the bar by 1 point, and did relatively well for himself.

Outliers ftw

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Success in law school is not entirely determinative of success in practice. Joe Jamail only managed to pass the bar by 1 point, and did relatively well for himself.

Outliers ftw

Joe also worked his ass off and didn't expect any handouts from anyone.

 

[crazyquik]

Very true. He was tired of selling vegetables at his immigrant parent's shop I guess. That's a pretty good reason to become a billionaire.

 

[rlx]

Simple fact. Someone who is in the top 10 of the class at a second-tier law school will be a better lawyer than someone who is in the bottom half of the class at any of the top ten law schools in the US. Over the last 20+ years, I've hired both. Smart and motivated is what counts.

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by rlx

Simple fact. Someone who is in the top 10 of the class at a second-tier law school will be a better lawyer than someone who is in the bottom half of the class at any of the top ten law schools in the US. Over the last 20+ years, I've hired both. Smart and motivated is what counts.

Yeah, but career services promised those guys at the bottom of their class at NYU $180k right out of law school, so you better hire them!!!!!!!1111oneoneoneone!!!!!1eleven11!!111!!!

 

[luftvier]

Originally Posted by rjakapeanut

i love these topics!

i have a list of law schools i'm going to apply to (stanford, chicago, duke, texas-austin, tulane, alabama, north carolina and vanderbilt) and it's good to see these threads that really help shape my future choices.

if i can get into stanford or chicago i'm definitely going to go, but i'm not sure if it's the best idea because i'm not sold on biglaw.

the fact is...i really want to be a lawyer. i've done research upon research about practicing law and what it's REALLY like, and from what i've gathered the differences in biglaw and regular law are:

1.) biglaw -- you do marsupialed work 10-16 hours a day that will not really help you as an actual lawyer in the traditional sense....you make a ton of money but you're probably going to be miserable.

2.) non-biglaw -- you go to a smaller firm and you get your feet wet alot quicker. you make less money, but you probably get more valuable experience.

tbh i'd prefer #2. i want to be a lawyer, not a rich guy. if i can beomce a great lawyer i'll be making tons of $$ anyway, so why be miserable in big law?

but is it worth it to be $150kish in debt upon graduation if i'm NOT going to biglaw? should i just go to a smaller more inexpensive school like alabama or even LSU (im a resident of LA) and just grind my way up the ladder?

seems like a pretty relevant post for this thread ;x

My advice-
Go to the best school that you can get into that will cost you the least.

Example: if you get a 180 LSAT and Chicago gives you boatloads of money, then do it.

But, say you get a 163. Chicago might accept you, but you'll have to pay your whole way. However, a local school (Tulane, LSU, Loyola) and they'll pay your whole way, take the latter. Unless you want to end up in Chicago or NYC BigLaw (and you're willing to be in the top 10% of your class), the debt load is NOT worth it. You bill out at $200-300/hr, but only receive a fraction of that in actual pay.

Say your firm requires 2000 billables a year. That's $600,000 that you charge clients (assuming $300/hr). You make $140k (in this market, that's about what you'd get in big law). That's $70/hr. Of course, you only really bill (on a good day) about 80% of the hours worked. So, you're actually at work 2,500 hrs/year. That's more like $56/hr.


If you work in BigLaw you are, IMO, NOT a lawyer. You can be replaced by document review drones in Bangalore, India. You have no job security. You are forced to work super long hours and are a slave to your assigning partner/associate. No vacations. No quality of life. When you lose your job due to downsizing, you have no marketable skills, just like the 1000s of other young laid off associates.

Getting a spot in a Mid/Small firm makes you learn. You write. You maybe take a deposition or two. You could appear in court. You actually learn how to do things.

Even better to start (if you want to be a trial attorney) take a position in the City Solicitor's office or the DA/PD. You learn applicable skills instantly. You know how to speak in front of judges. You understand how the system works, how to file motions, briefs, etc. Then, after a few years when the low pay is killing you, lateral out. Or, alternatively, start your own shop as a defense attorney and pocket the money.
Then, say you bill at $300/hr (just like above). You actually get to pocket $300/hr, minus rent, staff, and other overhead. Even assuming that eats up half of each billable, you're pocketing $150/hr. That's 3x as much as working in BigLaw. You just gotta hustle to get your own clients.

BigLaw is great for a year or two to pay off loans if you are willing to be an automaton without a life. I aspire for free time to enjoy the nice things that my pay nets me.