Saint Crispin shoes

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by UR003

However, I thought they would really be seamless, and I notice a seam on the inside of the heel.
Any whole cut shoe will have one seam, which is needed to transfer a flat sheet of leather into a three dimensional shoe.

Most shoes have that seam at the back of the heel; in that particular case, St Crispin has pulled it further to the inside. (Just as with JL's 'Jermyn II', where the seam is inside centre.)

If a whole cut has two seams, then there are two pieces of leather involved and it's no longer a whole cut.

 

[UR003]

Okay, I get it. But isn't it a tad pretentious to call a shoe seamless if it in fact does have one seam?

 

[RJman]

There are indeed seamless wholecuts that require a very special cutting of the leather,are there not?

 

[UR003]

Originally Posted by RJman

There are indeed seamless wholecuts that require a very special cutting of the leather,are there not?
That's what I thought too. I believed there were two breeds of wholecuts, the ones with a seam, and the truly seamless ones, where the leather was "sculpted" into shape.

 

[TKDKid]

I think these Roberto Ugolini wholecuts are seamless:

 

[bengal-stripe]

Those Ugolini shoes have me flabbergasted. I do not know and I don't understand, how they are constructed. They appear to be "seamless".

Think of a last, think of a great pieces of flat leather laid over. Yes, you can pull the leather over vamp and sides, but on the heel you have an excessive amount, I do not understand how you can pull that under without folds or pleats. I could understand cutting the leather not right through all the way up and adding a dart to ½ or ¾ height to remove the excess. Maybe one of our resident shoemakers, Messrs Melkerson and Myhre, might want to comment.

But we are talking about "whole cuts", I have never heard them called "seamless". (Who said that whole cut and seamless are exchangeable terms?) Every whole cut I have ever seen has a seam somewhere; usually on the heal, but "˜Jermyn II' is wrapped around the seam. Occasionally you find inferior quality whole cuts like Bavarian "˜Haferl-Schuhe' where an additional seam has been added to save on the leather (turning a whole cut into a three quarter cut).

 

[kronik]

Oh my God.

That Ugolini is freaking gorgeous.

 

[Duveen]

To ease bengal's suffering - I think that someone has in the past called 'BS' on those Ugolini photos - you'll note that there is at least one small part of the side after the heel that is never depicted in the photos. That said, in looking @ them again, they certainly SEEM seamless.

Hmmm...now my mind is becoming a pretzel.

EDITED TO ADD: Now I remember a bit more - there may also have been an assertion that the photos depict two different shoes. I did a quick search and can't find the thread I am thinking of (blast it all!).

Also -- the shoes are beautiful. I agree with those above and below.

 

[whoopee]

The Crispins are lovely.

 

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by Duveen

To ease bengal's suffering - I think that someone has in the past called 'BS' on those Ugolini photos - you'll note that there is at least one small part of the side after the heel that is never depicted in the photos. That said, in looking @ them again, they certainly SEEM seamless.

Hmmm...now my mind is becoming a pretzel.

EDITED TO ADD: Now I remember a bit more - there may also have been an assertion that the photos depict two different shoes. I did a quick search and can't find the thread I am thinking of (blast it all!).

Also -- the shoes are beautiful. I agree with those above and below.
That is very esoteric trickery. Imagine all those Japanese shoe-fans consulting their late 19th century shoe texts bought off eBay for extra-ordinary prices due to a Japanese bidding war.

 

[Roy]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

Those Ugolini shoes have me flabbergasted. I do not know and I don't understand, how they are constructed. They appear to be "seamless".

Think of a last, think of a great pieces of flat leather laid over. Yes, you can pull the leather over vamp and sides, but on the heel you have an excessive amount, I do not understand how you can pull that under without folds or pleats. I could understand cutting the leather not right through all the way up and adding a dart to ½ or ¾ height to remove the excess. Maybe one of our resident shoemakers, Messrs Melkerson and Myhre, might want to comment.

But we are talking about "whole cuts", I have never heard them called "seamless". (Who said that whole cut and seamless are exchangeable terms?) Every whole cut I have ever seen has a seam somewhere; usually on the heal, but "˜Jermyn II' is wrapped around the seam. Occasionally you find inferior quality whole cuts like Bavarian "˜Haferl-Schuhe' where an additional seam has been added to save on the leather (turning a whole cut into a three quarter cut).
The thing is that St. Crispin's call their wholecut model the 'seamless'

 

[TKDKid]

Originally Posted by Duveen

To ease bengal's suffering - I think that someone has in the past called 'BS' on those Ugolini photos - you'll note that there is at least one small part of the side after the heel that is never depicted in the photos. That said, in looking @ them again, they certainly SEEM seamless.

Hmmm...now my mind is becoming a pretzel.

EDITED TO ADD: Now I remember a bit more - there may also have been an assertion that the photos depict two different shoes. I did a quick search and can't find the thread I am thinking of (blast it all!).

Also -- the shoes are beautiful. I agree with those above and below.
I think you mean this thread at Ask Andy's?

 

[von Rothbart]

Originally Posted by Duveen

EDITED TO ADD: Now I remember a bit more - there may also have been an assertion that the photos depict two different shoes. I did a quick search and can't find the thread I am thinking of (blast it all!).

The pictures are of the same shoe. Look carefully at the way the lace looped and where the loops and ends rested, the pictures are pretty consistent.

 

[Looking to improve]

Originally Posted by Roy

My Saint Crispins:

Quite the beauties! I like the colour brown you chose (as well as the model

).

A sound investment

.

MtB

 

[Roy]

For those that are interested two additional pictures of the sole:

One
Two
Side view