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Saint Crispin shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by rsp1, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. rsp1

    rsp1 Senior member

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    I stumbled across these on ebay, but can't remember ever seeing a discussion of them on this board. Can anyone shed some light on this company and its products? Thank you. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....51&rd=1
     
  2. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I can't claim that I know a thing. I like the look of the shoes (interesting pattern, possibly a bevelled waist, etc.), but someone needs to tell Ian that he ought to include a picture of the soles rather than a closeup of the laces.

    St. Crispin, incidentally, is the patron saint of shoemakers and cobblers, I believe.
     
  3. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    Looks like there's a pretty visible imperfection in the leather on the left side of the shoe towards the toe area. Also, I find it a little strange that they already seem to be creasing a little (as do the other 7.5 St Crispin's he has listed. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....0&rd=1) Otherwise quite beautiful.
     
  4. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Are you referring to the spot just up from the sole approximately parallel to the tip of the wing cap in the first picture? It's not clear to me whether that's an artifact of the photography or an imperfection on the shoe. As for the creasing, all it means is that the shoes have been tried on. Even a small amount of walking will crease a vamp enough to be obvious in an extreme close-up.
     
  5. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    I think it's an imperfection becasue it seems to appear in more than one pic. But I could be wrong... [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. WJTW

    WJTW Well-Known Member

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    What's even better, he is also the patron saint of leather workers, according to wikipedia. So, he would be the perfect saint for leather-shoe makers.
    Anyway, does anyone wish to add your knowledge of shoes, suits, etc, into wikipedia?

    Hmm, the Saint Crispins' are quite expensive. Are they really worth that much quality-wise?

    WJTW
     
  7. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior member

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    Those shoes look beautiful, though it's hard to judge quality from the pics. Here's a link to presumably the same Saint Crispin's website. The style in question looks like Model 105 from their RTW line. Quite a few nice shoes on their site like this and this. No mention on retail price though.
     
  8. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Can someone tell us more about these shoes. How do they compare to Santoni and Edward Green?
     
  9. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Great website. If what they say there is true, then this is one of the very few workshops in the world making a truly handmade rtw shoe.

    As far as Santoni and Edward Green go - Edward Green is a superbly finished shoe, with most of the work done by hand-guided machinery. Santoni's Fatte a Mano shoes are handmade in the sense that most of the crucial steps in the "making" of the shoe (for instance, the sewing of the welt and sole) are done by hand. Many of the smaller steps involve labor saving machinery. Sort of a combination approach.

    That mark looks like a crease from the shoe being tried on.
     
  10. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I haven't seen the shoes before, so I cannot make any comments. They are actually made in Transylvania/Rumania although they use throughout the website (even in English) the German name "Siebenbürgen" (do they worry about people reaching for the garlic.)

    The website is excellent (particular the section about shoe care). I presume the shoes to be of a similar standard as Vass, although they aim more for an English look as opposed to the Austro/Hungarian style.
     
  11. kabert

    kabert Senior member

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    I agree that the shoes look great. Very nice designs. Some remind me of some of the Grensons that Bennie's was selling, and others remind me of Edward Green. And, yes, a very nicely functioning website. Why can't Grenson or Edward Green (or Lobb for that matter) put together a website that works like that one??????
     
  12. kabert

    kabert Senior member

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    I sent an email to Saint Crispin's earlier today and just got this very prompt and informative reply from them: "Thank you for your kind request and compliments. I'm afraid we have not found yet appropriate retailers in the US. But thing may change and we certainly will keep you informed. For the time being we supplied to some individual customers in the US. Please find further down informations which cannot not be found on our website. The BESPOKE Line In order to build the clients individual last we have to see him personally for taking his measurements. Then a trial shoe is made from scrap materials which has to be fitted again to the customer's foot.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]ffice[​IMG]ffice" /> Only after this procedure the final shoe is made up. The major difference to the PRET line is that we guarantee for the perfect fit of the BESPOKE shoe, whereas for the PRET line the customer takes responsibility for the right size of his order. To go through the procedure of measuring, last making and fit trial we would at least need 5 working days and your presence in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[​IMG]ffice:smarttags" />Vienna. All styles shown in the PRET section of our website may also be executed for BESPOKE shoes as well. The price for BESPOKE shoes, including trees and shipping by Airmail would be € 1428. The PRET line shoes would cost € 650 - 690 (depending on the style). TREES at a price of € 113 are not obligatory but highly recommended. PRET shoes come in English sizes from 5 - 12 ½ and 4 different fittings (widths) E ½, F ½, G ½, H ½. Note: Neither English sizes nor our continental fittings are directly comparable to American sizes and fittings. Please find enclosed an approximate conversion table. Our standard materials are: French aniline Calf VND 999, black VND 038, oxblood VND 078, dark brown VND 076, hazelnut VND 074, light tan VND 072, cognac Various colours of: Buffalo print (BUF), Suede (BCK), Peccary (PEC) On request and description we would send sample clippings of other materials in stock. Note: Payment by VISA or Bank transver, due after invoicing approx. 4 week before shipping. Kind regards Michael Rollig"
     
  13. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior member

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    kabert - Thanks for posting this information. Looks like the ebay auction lists an inflated retail price unless they're bespoke items. The seller has a stellar reputaion though, so I wouldn't hold this against him.
    Did they include any kind of sizing chart? If so, would you mind sharing? [​IMG]
     
  14. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I also sent e-mail to Herr Rollig to ask a bunch of my typical pesky questions and to point him to this topic (his response: "Now it becomes clear why we have so many requests from individuals lately."). Here's the sizing chart:
    Other interesting things that he revealed: The only last available for RTW shoes is the 1746, which appears to be a rather bulbous, deep round-toe last. Some of the pictures in the RTW section are of bespoke samples, which accounts for some of the different toe shapes apparent there. Saint Crispin's has four different sole constructions available for their RTW shoes. One, the GE8, is particularly interesting. It has breast-to-breast welting, but sole-stitching only goes from the top of the waist to the top of the waist. The waist of the shoe is pegged, similar to the waist of an American cowboy boot (although Herr Rollig points out that cowboy boots aren't welted through the waist while his shoes are). The result is a very fiddled fiddle-back waist.
     
  15. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior member

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    Thank you for the sizing chart. Only one last for their entire RTW line is dissapointing, but the model 116 chukka boot looks nice with the slightly bulbous nose, which I'm guessing is the 1746 last.
     
  16. AJL

    AJL Senior member

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  17. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    JL - These would be close to Dick Grasso's size, but I could never see him ordering such shoes.
     
  18. AJL

    AJL Senior member

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    Does he have crooked feet? Update: after a bit of amateur sleuthing (gumshoe-ing... [​IMG]), I began to consider the trees themselves. Since they are handcarved, could they not have some variations of their own? And since they are so snug in the shoes, and having been inside the shoes for an indeterminate amount of time, could they have temporarily changed the shape of them? Of course, this would seem to run counter to the purpose of a custom made tree, i.e. to maintain the shape of the shoes exactly as intended? The aforementioned is perhaps all moot, because when I fold the trees into themselves so that the heel folds over onto the top of the vamp, or tongue (remember, they're hinged), the heel of the left tree is cocked fully 1/2" off center, while the right tree's heel folds over neatly across the middle of the tongue (now is when I really need that camera). So either a) someone f'ed up the left shoe tree, which when inserted into the shoe causes it to become misshapen, or b) these shoes are in fact bespoke, and were made for someone who's got a pretty out of whack left foot. As I sight a line from the heel of the shoe across the vamp to the toe, the right shoe follows pretty much in a straight line, and the left--surprise, looks to be about 1/2" off. Sounds like its time for an email to Ian. Damn, I really like these shoes, but it would always bother me if they weren't quite right. At least I wasn't imagining it. Was my novella all for naught?
     
  19. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Those tiny, subtle plugs are in fact little beechwood pegs, hence the term "pegged." They help to attach the outsole to the insole of the shoe, although I don't know the technical reason why they would be used rather than regular stitching.
    I have no idea. However, if Saint Crispin's modifies stock lasts to make their bespoke shoes rather than making the lasts de novo, then it would be plausible. I have no idea whether this is their process or not, though. The lack of marking inside the shoes is not that unusual. Vass RTW shoes, for example, have no markings at all inside the shoe except for the name of the man who lasted the shoes on the right shoe.
     
  20. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    If the Vass book doesn't lie to me, trees are made using a lathe duplicator to copy the lasts that the shoes were made on. The trees would, of course, be finished by hand, but I would expect them to be pretty accurate copies of the lasts. Unless, of course, somebody royally screwed them up.
     

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