Proper Cloth - Official Affiliate Thread

[Seph]

Of course, and I don’t want to set an impossibly high standard. Just find it odd that a more specialized brand chooses to not give any information/reassurance at all, in an age when fast fashion brands are expected to pay lip service to fair practices.

I could have phrased my question in a more open way: Seph, could you give us an idea in which conditions PC shirts are produced?

Hey Samm - this is a complicated one because there are so many aspects, and some of the details I don't know off the top of my head. In the future I'd like to produce some more content to tell this story better, but let me share some quick thoughts now.

In general, the conditions our shirts are made are very good. I've visited our factory in Malaysia several times (for comparison I've also been to many other clothing factories in Italy and Asia). The work space is well lit and temperature controlled. There is a cafeteria where folks eat together. I've eaten there and the food is pretty good. There are no children working there or anything like that. I don't recall wages off the top of my head, (of course they are low by US standards) but they are competitive for the area, and in Malaysia there is a pretty good electronics manufacturing industry that pays well that we need to compete with. Workplace safety gets a lot of attention and injuries are very rare.

Lastly, and this is more of an intangible, I've visited some other factories where the culture 'felt' authoritative and the workers seemed scared to make eye contact - there's something disconcerting about that. One of the things I love about our Malaysia factory (and also our factory in Thailand for tailored clothing) is that the folks there just seem pretty happy. Managers joke around and average workers smile back at you. Folks are proud of their work, as they should be.

In general, we're not the cheapest shirtmaker out there, and we don't intend to be. Our emphasis is on quality and consistency, so we steer clear of the really low-cost factories out there. I think the places where every penny is squeezed are the ones you have to worry about cutting corners. At the same time, we work really hard to use technology to streamline our operations and be competitive, and that's obviously been a big part of our success.

Sustainability is another topic completely... I find it fascinating and a big opportunity. Fundamentally we're producing products and delivering them to customers, which consumes resources and emits carbon, etc... there's no way around it. Understanding this topic really requires a better understanding of how much better or worse you are to some alternative. I think we're probably more efficient with raw materials and resources since we make everything to order, and I like to believe our customers get more use out of our products because they are well made and fit them better, but there are so many different ways to look at it. Hope to have more to say about this in 2019.

 

[Sammm]

Hey Samm - this is a complicated one because there are so many aspects, and some of the details I don't know off the top of my head. In the future I'd like to produce some more content to tell this story better, but let me share some quick thoughts now.

In general, the conditions our shirts are made are very good. I've visited our factory in Malaysia several times (for comparison I've also been to many other clothing factories in Italy and Asia). The work space is well lit and temperature controlled. There is a cafeteria where folks eat together. I've eaten there and the food is pretty good. There are no children working there or anything like that. I don't recall wages off the top of my head, (of course they are low by US standards) but they are competitive for the area, and in Malaysia there is a pretty good electronics manufacturing industry that pays well that we need to compete with. Workplace safety gets a lot of attention and injuries are very rare.

Lastly, and this is more of an intangible, I've visited some other factories where the culture 'felt' authoritative and the workers seemed scared to make eye contact - there's something disconcerting about that. One of the things I love about our Malaysia factory (and also our factory in Thailand for tailored clothing) is that the folks there just seem pretty happy. Managers joke around and average workers smile back at you. Folks are proud of their work, as they should be.

In general, we're not the cheapest shirtmaker out there, and we don't intend to be. Our emphasis is on quality and consistency, so we steer clear of the really low-cost factories out there. I think the places where every penny is squeezed are the ones you have to worry about cutting corners. At the same time, we work really hard to use technology to streamline our operations and be competitive, and that's obviously been a big part of our success.

Sustainability is another topic completely... I find it fascinating and a big opportunity. Fundamentally we're producing products and delivering them to customers, which consumes resources and emits carbon, etc... there's no way around it. Understanding this topic really requires a better understanding of how much better or worse you are to some alternative. I think we're probably more efficient with raw materials and resources since we make everything to order, and I like to believe our customers get more use out of our products because they are well made and fit them better, but there are so many different ways to look at it. Hope to have more to say about this in 2019.

Thanks Seph. I appreciate your open and constructive reply, and your story sounds reassuring.

I understand these things are complicated – you can’t just claim on your website that ‘folks in our factory seem pretty happy’ because it’s a highly contestable claim. But surely there are many other customers like myself who like to be able to make informed decisions about which companies to buy from, so I think some kind of statement on the website would be good. Currently the ‘about’ page is all about your NYC-side innovation (which you’re clearly good at!), but nothing about where the shirts are sewn.

Again, thanks and all the best.

 

[saskatoonjay]

I think we're probably more efficient with raw materials and resources since we make everything to order, and I like to believe our customers get more use out of our products because they are well made and fit them better.

Environmentally sustainable clothing: this is how I think of Proper Cloth. They only make what will be worn. And the shirts last so long I don’t have to replace them. I still wear my first PC shirt from early 2015.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

That's interesting. I think we've always associated tighter seams with higher quality, but for casual shirts this could make sense. We will investigate.

Odd, I brought this up years ago and it was ignored. Good to see some thought being given to it now, at least.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

Another issue I would like to raise:

Based on my experience, the two go-to MTM shirtmakers favored on this forum are PC and Luxire. PC seems to have the edge in quality/craftsmanship, consistency, fabric selections, and website interface. Luxire has the edge in customization (at the buyer's risk).

Where PC is currently lacking is a collar to suit slim guys with longer necks. The Roma collars provide adequate height in the collar band, but the longer points look out of proportion on smaller frames. I'd love it if PC could develop a collar similar to the Turnbull & Asser classic collar (which has 2 7/8" collar points and 3/8" tie space), but with the collar band height of the PC Roma collars. To me, the lack of this option leaves a gaping hole in the current collar selections, and prevents me from filling all my dress shirt needs through PC, whereas Luxire's level of customization solves this need.

I know some collar styles tend to come and go, so if there's an opportunity for something like what I am suggesting to be developed, I think it would find some buyers as I can't be the only one in this situation.

 

[patliean1]

Questions for anyone who's successfully transitioned to Proper Cloth from the (other) popular MTM shirt maker here on SF:

1. Were you able to apply your shirt measurements over to PC without much issues in fit?
2. Does anyone know the measurements for both of PC armhole opening options? There are two right lol?

 

[Seph]

Odd, I brought this up years ago and it was ignored. Good to see some thought being given to it now, at least.

We're slowly but surely making our way through a long list of ideas and new styles...

 

[Seph]

Questions for anyone who's successfully transitioned to Proper Cloth from the (other) popular MTM shirt maker here on SF:

1. Were you able to apply your shirt measurements over to PC without much issues in fit?
2. Does anyone know the measurements for both of PC armhole opening options? There are two right lol?

We don't publish armhole dimensions, but the sleeve width at bicep is a good proxy for replicating the fit of the armhole. More info on the two shoulder/armpit fit options here: https://propercloth.com/reference/tailored-vs-full-shoulder-armpit-fit/

Most common mistake made when trying to transfer shirt measurements over is on the sleeve length. We specify from the back of the collar to the end of the cuff (not from shoulder to the end of the cuff as some other shirt makers do). https://propercloth.com/reference/how-to-measure-a-shirt-sleeve-length/

 

[patliean1]

We don't publish armhole dimensions, but the sleeve width at bicep is a good proxy for replicating the fit of the armhole. More info on the two shoulder/armpit fit options here: https://propercloth.com/reference/tailored-vs-full-shoulder-armpit-fit/

Most common mistake made when trying to transfer shirt measurements over is on the sleeve length. We specify from the back of the collar to the end of the cuff (not from shoulder to the end of the cuff as some other shirt makers do). https://propercloth.com/reference/how-to-measure-a-shirt-sleeve-length/

Thanks for the info. I currently have a shirt in my cart...with the incorrect method of measuring the sleeves LoL. Saved by bell.

 

[Pb924]

loving the new washed indigo offerings

 

[ericgereghty]

We're slowly but surely making our way through a long list of ideas and new styles...

Any insight you're able/willing to offer here? IF you're open to customer suggestions, please, please, PLEASE create a soft (or just softer...beggars and choosers lol) Milano collar, ideally with staggered buttons.

 

[patliean1]

Which shipping carrier does Proper Cloth use for the United States?
I've found that shipping packages directly to a FedEx or UPS store has made for a significantly better shipping experience. Thanks

 

[Seph]

Any insight you're able/willing to offer here? IF you're open to customer suggestions, please, please, PLEASE create a soft (or just softer...beggars and choosers lol) Milano collar, ideally with staggered buttons.

Soft Roma is really too small? Or you like the two button band?

 

[Seph]

Which shipping carrier does Proper Cloth use for the United States?
I've found that shipping packages directly to a FedEx or UPS store has made for a significantly better shipping experience. Thanks

It really depends. We use DHL, FedEx and UPS depending on where it's shipping and the size of the order. Shipping costs are a big expense so we do a lot to optimize things here.

 

[ericgereghty]

Soft Roma is really too small? Or you like the two button band?

It's not so much dissatisfaction with the Soft Roma (probably my second favorite collar) as it is love with the Milano. If additional collars are being considered, that would be comfortably at the top of my list, perhaps even with 3.75" points.