Proper Cloth - Official Affiliate Thread

[Frankie Fuzz]

I found that the Heavy Oxfords are pretty well dialed-in, but the American Pima's shrunk more than expected. However, with @Seph's offer above on a remake, I wouldn't sweat it too much unless your fit is already pretty trim.

Would you be able to compare the regular Heavy Oxford to the American Pima version? I'm gonna be in the market for a few OCBD and can't decide between the two. If price isn't an issue, would you recommend the Pima? Or are there reasons one would prefer the regular one?

 

[RCD33]

Would you be able to compare the regular Heavy Oxford to the American Pima version? I'm gonna be in the market for a few OCBD and can't decide between the two. If price isn't an issue, would you recommend the Pima? Or are there reasons one would prefer the regular one?

These are just one guy's anecdotes of course, but this is what I've found:

The Heavy Oxfords seem to have some durability issues for me, namely elbow blowouts (at least partially due to the perils of desk-jockeying) that I hadn't seen on my Brooks Brothers or Kamakura shirts. Because of this, I tried the American Pima as a test with the same dimensions. I've found it to be more durable so far, very substantial and thick in comparison, but with substantially more shrinkage. I'd highly recommend it over the Heavy Oxford for cool weather, assuming you accommodate for the shrinkage properly.

I also have had good experiences with the Melange Oxfords as a mid-weight fabric compared to the Pima's, and might use these more going forward.

 

[Frankie Fuzz]

These are just one guy's anecdotes of course, but this is what I've found:

The Heavy Oxfords seem to have some durability issues for me, namely elbow blowouts (at least partially due to the perils of desk-jockeying) that I hadn't seen on my Brooks Brothers or Kamakura shirts. Because of this, I tried the American Pima as a test with the same dimensions. I've found it to be more durable so far, very substantial and thick in comparison, but with substantially more shrinkage. I'd highly recommend it over the Heavy Oxford for cool weather, assuming you accommodate for the shrinkage properly.

I also have had good experiences with the Melange Oxfords as a mid-weight fabric compared to the Pima's, and might use these more going forward.

Thanks! Is the shrinkage of the melange comparable to that of the heavy oxford? And one last question: for the pima, how much would you recommend adding to each relevant dimension to account for the additional shrinkage?

 

[paulraphael]

These are just one guy's anecdotes of course, but this is what I've found:

The Heavy Oxfords seem to have some durability issues for me, namely elbow blowouts (at least partially due to the perils of desk-jockeying) that I hadn't seen on my Brooks Brothers or Kamakura shirts. Because of this, I tried the American Pima as a test with the same dimensions. I've found it to be more durable so far, very substantial and thick in comparison, but with substantially more shrinkage. I'd highly recommend it over the Heavy Oxford for cool weather, assuming you accommodate for the shrinkage properly.

I also have had good experiences with the Melange Oxfords as a mid-weight fabric compared to the Pima's, and might use these more going forward.

This is great info. How would you say these various oxfords compare in weight, texture, etc. to traditional oxfords like Brooks Brothers?

I'm especially interested in the pima and the melange. Possibly also some of the Thomas Mason varieties, but they may be lighter than what i'm after, and less oxford-like.

 

[RCD33]

Thanks! Is the shrinkage of the melange comparable to that of the heavy oxford? And one last question: for the pima, how much would you recommend adding to each relevant dimension to account for the additional shrinkage?

The melange was very comparable to the heavy oxford, maybe even a hair less shrinkage. I haven't tried ordering a second shirt in the Pima fabric, but I'd probably start at 1/2" all-around and see what happens.

Again, just my guess, and I'm no expert when it comes this stuff. I have to imagine @Seph and Proper Cloth would certainly know much more than me.

 

[RCD33]

This is great info. How would you say these various oxfords compare in weight, texture, etc. to traditional oxfords like Brooks Brothers?

I'm especially interested in the pima and the melange. Possibly also some of the Thomas Mason varieties, but they may be lighter than what i'm after, and less oxford-like.

My personal favorite is actually the Brooks Brothers blue, which has a bit more gray-tint than the Kamakura or Proper Cloth varieties. But, the fit is much better with Proper Cloth so it's worth the trade-off. I'm a big fan of the Melange for the subtle texture variations.

Weight (or maybe stiffness would be more accurate), from lightest to heaviest: BB/Ratio > Melange > Heavy Oxford > Kamakura > American Pima

 

[paulraphael]

One of the big variables that is tough to account for is how you plan to launder the shirt.

This makes sense. When you calculate shrinkage for your patterns, what type of laundering are you assuming? If we knew this, it would help us figure out if we should expect more or less shrinkage than you build into the shirts, based on our own laundry habits.

 

[Seph]

This makes sense. When you calculate shrinkage for your patterns, what type of laundering are you assuming? If we knew this, it would help us figure out if we should expect more or less shrinkage than you build into the shirts, based on our own laundry habits.

Generally assuming wash cold and hang dry.

 

[Frankie Fuzz]

Today I received Version #2 of my Proper Cloth test shirt. I posted photos of Version #1 earlier in the thread. The changes made were:

1) Square Shoulders adjustment to reduce pull from top button to shoulders
2) Shorten the length for wearing untucked
3) Tighten cuffs
4) Dart the back and take midsection in 0.5''
5) Tailored shoulders adjustment to reduce twisting at bicep
6) Widen yoke 0.25''.

The new shirt fits better but it's still not quite there. I have attached photos below. This is after 2 washings (cold wash, hang dry).

My thoughts are that, even with darts, there is too much fabric in the back. The midsection could probably come in another 0.5'' (?) or so. Also, there are also still some pull lines from the top button to the shoulder, so it could be worth trying the Very Square adjustment. And finally, the sleeve width could maybe come down 0.25''.

What do you guys think?

 

[Pb924]

I have also found the Oxfords are the toughest to size right. To be safe I add some extra space in chest, waist, and sleeve width – usually a half inch. I can wear a shirt that's slightly large, but too small and its unwearable. I've found the pure cotton oxfords shrink a little more than the blends.

 

[Sammm]

I have also found the Oxfords are the toughest to size right. To be safe I add some extra space in chest, waist, and sleeve width – usually a half inch. I can wear a shirt that's slightly large, but too small and its unwearable. I've found the pure cotton oxfords shrink a little more than the blends.

I have a feeling that the stiffness and wrinkle-proneness of oxfords is perhaps as much a reason to go a bit larger. The sleeves end up crinkling so much in the elbows that you need about .5" to compensate, and the body ‘flows’ less so you need some more leeway there as well.

 

[DEE1970]

Navy buttons haven't been on our list, but we discussed internally recently. Generally we've considered brown horn the "classic" option for a navy suit/jacket. Curious if you are looking for a flat unvarying navy color button, or something more horn looking with flecks of white/blue variance?

Good suggestion on the fabric weight details. We'll be showing that at some point.

Thanks for your reply @Seph, I would suggest a dark navy blue with very little variance. That way it will work equally well with a formal navy suit or as an interesting way of dressing down the navy velvet jacket.

 

[pmestrad]

Anyone with photos of the dark teal wool-linen jacket? Would love to see some IRL photos. Thinking of buying.

 

[mossrockss]

Have the collar linings gotten thicker in the past 5 years? @Seph , @ccallis

Got a heavy oxford uni stripe button down; compared to my 5-year-old solid blue heavy oxford button down, the collar feels thicker. But, also can’t tell if it’s my imagination and/or the older shirt's lining has softened way up from years of washing.

 

[paulraphael]

Yes - I know what you mean. Blue is popular. We will have more greens/browns/reds coming this fall though.

Great. I'd be thrilled to other warm colors as well, such as maroons, rusts, burnt oranges, burgundies. Especially in your great fabrics like the Reda wools and the Canclini flannels.

I love the blues, but am starting to feel oversaturated with them. It's not that other colors are absent; it's that among your nicest fabrics and patterns blues are so dominant that I sometimes have trouble finding a non-blue that I'm crazy about. It's maybe a problem for me more than for some, because my skin and hair color is much more amenable to fall colors. But there are many out there with similar coloring ...