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My issues with soccer

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Mr. Checks, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. Bradford

    Bradford Senior member

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    But that is what happens in soccer. The complication is that the referee is the one with the stop-watch, and we don't get to see it. He stops it when the ball goes out, and when players are "injured" and so on, but his watch is not connected up to a central, visible, display. That's why, when it's near the end of the game according to the clock on the TV screen, someone says to the ref. "We've got 90 minutes, what about you?" and he says "I've only got 88" and then there's two minutes of stoppage time. It's not like stoppage time is extra.

    So hook it up so that the refs stopwatch is connected to the TV clock. How tough would that be? At least for big televised matches like the World Cup, it shouldn't be that technologically complicated.
     
  2. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    Well, I do like chess, but think of it this way: what's better (to watch) than chess? Chess with rooks who can run a 40 faster than you can blink, smacking into each other full force and laying each other out; chess with bishops who have a vertical leap somewhere in the vicinity of your shoulders; etc etc. It's the combination of physicality and strategy that makes it so engrossing. Mental and physical combined. Almost anything can be merely exciting, given the right circumstances. To be truly engrossing and become something I want to devote time to following, it's got to have more depth than that.

    As I said earlier each to their own,but if this sport is so engrossing why is it not played worldwide.
     
  3. Bradford

    Bradford Senior member

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    As I said earlier each to their own,but if this sport is so engrossing why is it not played worldwide.

    American Football? Because it's uniquely American in that it requires a great deal of equipment and large numbers of people on each team.

    Clearly it's much easier to get a game of soccer together as it is a sport that at it's most basic requires a ball and a few people.

    That does not say anything about the relative excitement levels of the sport, merely the accessibility for anyone to participate.

    P.S. Funny article about this on FoxSports...

    Futbol vs. Football
     
  4. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    American Football? Because it's uniquely American in that it requires a great deal of equipment and large numbers of people on each team.

    Clearly it's much easier to get a game of soccer together as it is a sport that at it's most basic requires a ball and a few people.

    That does not say anything about the relative excitement levels of the sport, merely the accessibility for anyone to participate.

    P.S. Funny article about this on FoxSports...

    Futbol vs. Football


    That is a funny article,although obviously I don't agree with most of it.[​IMG]
    Maybe we could start a thread as a retort,why football is better than American football.
     
  5. benecios

    benecios Senior member

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    Just as a side issue,maybe this should be on a different thread but here goes.
    When I watch American sports particularly basketball the teams are generally made up of black players but I have never seen a black coach.Is this true or am I just watching the wrong games,and if it is true,why?
     
  6. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    Just as a side issue,maybe this should be on a different thread but here goes.
    When I watch American sports particularly basketball the teams are generally made up of black players but I have never seen a black coach.Is this true or am I just watching the wrong games,and if it is true,why?


    There's a few black coaches in the NBA. From what I've heard though, the NFL is having trouble recruiting black coaches and has been getting some criticism as a result.
     
  7. tiger02

    tiger02 Senior member

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    No worries, same here--I often have to caveat myself by saying that every single post I make here is made with a smile on my face [​IMG] Tactics was in reply to other posts.
     
  8. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    That is a funny article,although obviously I don't agree with most of it.[​IMG]
    Maybe we could start a thread as a retort,why football is better than American football.


    You should do it! It'd be fun. I mean, I truly do have issues with football (soccer), but in the end, who cares? You're right, to each their own. I'd like to think we American football fans could take a little good-natured ribbing. [​IMG]

    As for why American football isn't appreciated worldwide... who knows. It's not that easy to see quite what's happening in a casual viewing, unlike basketball or football, it requires a lot of equipment, etc. My friend (born and raised in India) who was trying to get me into football claims that the reason he doesn't much like American football is that the players are just "genetic freaks". He says it's like watching superhuman mutants play, and he likes feeling some sort of connection to the players--where in football, the guys are in great athletic condition, but they don't look monstrous or inhuman. Personally, I just think that's another plus for American football. So again, it just comes down to taste in the end.

    I'm kind of curious as to why rugby hasn't moved much beyond England, for example--personally, I'm pretty sure I'd end up watching it, but it's near impossible to find here.

    Anyway, my nearest and dearest is still basketball.
     
  9. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    I'm kind of curious as to why rugby hasn't moved much beyond England, for example--personally, I'm pretty sure I'd end up watching it, but it's near impossible to find here.


    Because American parents don't want to let little Billy do anything that could really get him hurt. They feel a lot better by having their precious little boy wearing as much padding as an infantryman.
     
  10. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    Because American parents don't want to let little Billy do anything that could really get him hurt. They feel a lot better by having their precious little boy wearing as much padding as an infantryman.

    LOL. And then reliving their own failed dreams of glory by transferring it all to their poor, unsuspecting PeeWee league kid.
     
  11. Mr. Checks

    Mr. Checks Senior member

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    But that is what happens in soccer. The complication is that the referee is the one with the stop-watch, and we don't get to see it. He stops it when the ball goes out, and when players are "injured" and so on, but his watch is not connected up to a central, visible, display. That's why, when it's near the end of the game according to the clock on the TV screen, someone says to the ref. "We've got 90 minutes, what about you?" and he says "I've only got 88" and then there's two minutes of stoppage time. It's not like stoppage time is extra.




    Again, it's up to the referee to stop that from happening. He has a stopwatch in his hand, and if people are celebrating in injury time (or if they get injured in injury time, or if the ball goes out in injury time) he can pause his stop watch. The reason that they call it "injury time" at all, is just as a courtesy to you, the viewer, so that you know that there's a discrepancy between the clock visible on the TV screen (which has been running continuously) and the watch on the referee's arm, which he has been stopping and starting according to what's happening on the field, just like in any other sport.

    It's only in the last five or so years that they've even started telling us how much injury time there is at all, but I think that's precisely what's caused confusion amongst people who think that injury time is extra time (which it's not).


    The essence of the US sports fan's view of your explanation could be boiled down with a paraphrase from Spinal Tap: "Why does yours go to 11?"
     
  12. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    I kind of like stoppage time. Again I think it also kind of reflects the political values of the societies. In America, where the government has to hold everybody's hand in everything they do, people need to know at exactly what time they are supposed to start something and at exactly what time, to the millisecond they are supposed to stop. If they are not told exactly what to do and when exactly to do it they get confused an upset. I think the societies that prefer soccer are societies where people are more self-reliant (even though Europe is socialist in many economic aspects, in many personal aspects it's a lot more free than America, where government regulates almost every aspect of our lives) and prefer to just go with the flow. They don't need to know exactly when to stop, just like they don't need to know exactly where to put the ball when there's a fouled or exactly where to throw the ball back in from when it goes out of bounds.

    Man I wish I could find that article that talked about all this stuff. America was once like soccer and the ideals of our Founding Fathers would have America be more like soccer (fluid, less involvment by government, people are self-relient and mostly control their own conduct within a set of very broad rules) than American football (violent, belligerant, with the government controlling your every move and acting within a set of very stringent and precise rules and regulations that can never be strayed from).
     
  13. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    I kind of like stoppage time. Again I think it also kind of reflects the political values of the societies. In America, where the government has to hold everybody's hand in everything they do, people need to know at exactly what time they are supposed to start something and at exactly what time, to the millisecond they are supposed to stop. If they are not told exactly what to do and when exactly to do it they get confused an upset. I think the societies that prefer soccer are societies where people are more self-reliant (even though Europe is socialist in many economic aspects, in many personal aspects it's a lot more free than America, where government regulates almost every aspect of our lives) and prefer to just go with the flow. They don't need to know exactly when to stop, just like they don't need to know exactly where to put the ball when there's a fouled or exactly where to throw the ball back in from when it goes out of bounds.
    If we're going to look at the game as a microcosm of cultural values, I would interpret this very differently. The American value at work is the desire, often expressed but unfortunately less often fulfilled, that everything be as fair and transparent as possible. Maybe the ref's getting paid to throw the game; maybe there's some shadiness or foul play. Or maybe you just want to make sure everyone realizes the exact stakes involved. In any event, put it up on a screen where everyone can see it. Then everyone knows what's going on, there's no question of someone tweaking it, and if anyone complains, you've got a giant clock to point to and say "now shut up and play." The other explanation, I think, is that American sports are so totally geared toward Big Moments. We LOVE it when the clock is winding down, there's 2.4 seconds exactly to inbound the ball, get it to your best shooter, hope he can make a move to get free, then throw up a buzzer-beater right as the backboard lights up. We love it when a football team has to go into a no-huddle offense and tear down the field because they're out of timeouts and can't stop the clock, trying desperately to beat it. American sports fans LIVE for those moments. Kobe's two buzzer-beaters against the Suns in the playoffs this last year almost made me respect him as a human being again. Almost. And it would NOT have been the same thing if Dick Bavetta was just holding a stopwatch on the sidelines and just blew a whistle when his stopwatch indicated that the game was over.
     
  14. tiger02

    tiger02 Senior member

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    ^^^ Fucking Reggie Miller.
     
  15. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    The other explanation, I think, is that American sports are so totally geared toward Big Moments. We LOVE it when the clock is winding down, there's 2.4 seconds exactly to inbound the ball, get it to your best shooter, hope he can make a move to get free, then throw up a buzzer-beater right as the backboard lights up. We love it when a football team has to go into a no-huddle offense and tear down the field because they're out of timeouts and can't stop the clock, trying desperately to beat it. American sports fans LIVE for those moments. Kobe's two buzzer-beaters against the Suns in the playoffs this last year almost made me respect him as a human being again. Almost. And it would NOT have been the same thing if Dick Bavetta was just holding a stopwatch on the sidelines and just blew a whistle when his stopwatch indicated that the game was over.

    Woah there, you just pulled the old switcheroo on me. I wasn't talking about basketball, I was talking about football. I have absolutely no beef with basketball. I probably play more basketball than soccer these days and I like watching basketball in person more than I like watching in soccer. I think basketball has a lot more of the qualities of soccer than it does of football. I'd also say that the rest of the world also likes basketball a lot more than any other American sport (as evidenced by our failure to dominate the Olympics last time around). If you were going to categorize sports I would put soccer and basketball in the same category as one another and put football and baseball together in a different catagory.
     
  16. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    Woah there, you just pulled the old switcheroo on me. I wasn't talking about basketball, I was talking about football. I have absolutely no beef with basketball. I probably play more basketball than soccer these days and I like watching basketball in person more than I like watching in soccer. I think basketball has a lot more of the qualities of soccer than it does of football. I'd also say that the rest of the world also likes basketball a lot more than any other American sport (as evidenced by our failure to dominate the Olympics last time around). If you were going to categorize sports I would put soccer and basketball in the same category as one another and put football and baseball together in a different catagory.
    I was using basketball as an example, because it's my favorite spectator sport, but I was talking about American sports in general--I was running with your "sport reflecting cultural values" theme. I think my points are still applicable to football, too--especially the one about Big Moments (tm). Football is completely structured around big moments, actually. Each down is more important than the last. How exciting is it when a team has to go for it on 4th and long, for example? Or watching the runningback try to squeeze that last yard out on third down when a guy's already hanging off him? And as the game progresses, each moment becomes more and more important. Like I said, I think American sports are geared to build towards things like a no-huddle offense situation (which my Eagles, for example, botched horribly a couple Superbowls ago), or one of those heartstopping 45-yard field goals with 3 seconds left on the clock that Vinatieri has iced so many teams with. Basketball's just the easiest example. At any rate, we both agree about basketball. [​IMG] In fact, I think one of the reasons I always end up disappointed with soccer/football is that I keep wanting it to be basketball (which obviously isn't fair, but there's no accounting for taste). What do you think about my first point? The fairness/transparency point? That's how I've always seen the apparently American obsession with a giant ticking clock and precise accounting for each tenth of a second. I'd be interested to know whether you think I'm off base or not.
     
  17. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    The essence of the US sports fan's view of your explanation could be boiled down with a paraphrase from Spinal Tap: "Why does yours go to 11?"
    One of my all-time favoirte movie quotes . . .
     
  18. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    What do you think about my first point? The fairness/transparency point? That's how I've always seen the apparently American obsession with a giant ticking clock and precise accounting for each tenth of a second. I'd be interested to know whether you think I'm off base or not.

    I don't think you're completely off base. I would say: transparency - yes; fairness - not always.

    I think stoppage time gives the referee some discretion which allows him to account for some unfairness that might occur in the game; but, as you said, it also allows him to abuse that discretion and influence the result.

    I wish we demanded the same kind of transparency from our government where they would have to account for every penny of our money that they spend.
     
  19. UMass

    UMass Senior member

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    I am not interested in soccer because I just do not have the patience for it. Soccer has no instant gratification like football, baseball, tennis, or basketball. I played soccer in the 5th grade. We ran up and down the field for an hour and the at the end score was 0-0. I knew then soccer was not for me. [​IMG]
     

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