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Ghosts?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JLibourel, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. Ludeykrus

    Ludeykrus Senior member

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    Why not...

    From an earlier conversation, copied and pasted:

    And then there was the separate occasion of an aethiest bud that saw stuff:

     
  2. acidboy

    acidboy Senior member

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    We had an employee who was stabbed to death years ago. A few weeks after the incident, an office staff swore she saw what looked like an employee, based on what he was wearing, going down the stairs from the office, except the guy didn't have a head. Another staff in our office told me she saw a lady standing inside my office when she came in and opened the office.
     
  3. cantona

    cantona Well-Known Member

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    Ghosts do not exist, the motives of the individuals who believe in them are always questionable. However one cannot argue against the reality of ghosts just as one cannot argue against faith. If a person believes in ghosts despite there being no scientific evidence at all then it is impossible for me to convince that person otherwise. Every single supposed supernatural event has been either explained or proved to be a falsity concoted usually through mob mentailty and proclaimed to be truth. The Invisible Pink Unicorn paradox springs to mind in conjuncture with peoples protests in support of ghosts.

    Cantona
     
  4. nyc_gaucho

    nyc_gaucho Senior member

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    i just read one of ludeykrus' stories...i think i'll save the rest for the daylight [​IMG]

    onto this:

    Ghosts do not exist, the motives of the individuals who belive in them are always questionable. However one cannot argue against the reality ghosts just as one cannot argue against faith. If a person believes in ghosts despite there being no scientific evidence at all then it is impossible for me to convince that person otherwise. Every single supposed supernatural event has been either explained or proved to be a falsity concoted usually though mob mentailty and proclaimed to be truth. The Invisible Pink Unicorn paradox springs to mind in conjuncture with peoples protests in support of ghosts.

    Cantona


    this kind of lustful and aggressive skepticism is more an indication of a personality that desperately needs to grasp at a feeling of superiority than it is any ultimate declaration of rational thought that it was meant to be...

    james randi is a douchebag
     
  5. rxcats

    rxcats Senior member

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    Ghosts do not exist, the motives of the individuals who belive in them are always questionable. However one cannot argue against the reality ghosts just as one cannot argue against faith. If a person believes in ghosts despite there being no scientific evidence at all then it is impossible for me to convince that person otherwise. Every single supposed supernatural event has been either explained or proved to be a falsity concoted usually though mob mentailty and proclaimed to be truth. The Invisible Pink Unicorn paradox springs to mind in conjuncture with peoples protests in support of ghosts.

    Cantona


    I completely agree.

    I had a friend in college (in Israel) who was raised in the Druze faith. It is an off-shoot of Islam, but has some important differences. They believe very strongly in reincarnation. Although my friend was not religious himself, he was brought up to believe in reincarnation. He told me stories, which I am absolutely certain he believed, of his brother's life with his "former life" family. He met and knows these people from his brother's former life. He cited a bunch of examples of how he knows this to be true. It's funny how Druze remember their previous lives and Catholics see apparitions of the Virgin Mary and not the other way around. People see what they expect to see.
     
  6. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

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    I once lived in a house in rural New Hampshire that must have been close to 250 years old. While I didn't see any ghosts exactly, I remember getting the odd chilly feeling, or just generally getting a skin-crawling feeling from time to time. I am not superstitious, but I remember thinking something along the lines of "ghosts in the wind..."
     
  7. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Senior member

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    We had an employee who was stabbed to death years ago. A few weeks after the incident, an office staff swore she saw what looked like an employee, based on what he was wearing, going down the stairs from the office, except the guy didn't have a head. Another staff in our office told me she saw a lady standing inside my office when she came in and opened the office.

    this is crazy spine tingling stuff!!!

    i ll read ludeykrus stories tonite! hehehehehheehe
     
  8. clarity

    clarity Senior member

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    Hm I can't say I have experienced anything knowingly with ghosts. I used to think I did as a kid in a new house but it turned out to be my action figures casting shadows from street lights outside the window.
     
  9. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    Ghosts do not exist, the motives of the individuals who believe in them are always questionable. However one cannot argue against the reality of ghosts just as one cannot argue against faith. If a person believes in ghosts despite there being no scientific evidence at all then it is impossible for me to convince that person otherwise. Every single supposed supernatural event has been either explained or proved to be a falsity concoted usually through mob mentailty and proclaimed to be truth. The Invisible Pink Unicorn paradox springs to mind in conjuncture with peoples protests in support of ghosts.

    Cantona


    I believe there is objective/scientific evidence of ghosts. There are documented cases of EVP and the like occurring all the time.

    Does anyone here watch Most Haunted on the Travel Channel? There have been some really good episodes. The most annoying thing about watching it though is that the crew has the biggest potty mouths. Whenever there is activity all they do is cuss and it gets bleeped out, so for one minute straight you hear bleep, oh my bleep bleep bleep hey, bleep bleep oh my bleep bleep.
     
  10. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I believe there is objective/scientific evidence of ghosts. There are documented cases of EVP
    The James Randi Educational Foundation offers a million dollars for proof that any phenomena, including EVP, are caused paranormally. The prize remains uncollected.
     
  11. sho'nuff

    sho'nuff Senior member

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    the only paranormal experience i have witnessed was at Disneyland.

    they have this mansion that is clearly haunted. so much so it is ridiculous.
     
  12. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Another ghost story that comes to mind:

    When I was at Oxford, I spent a few days visiting with one of my closest friends there. His father told me that, as a younger man, one day he unexpectedly came upon one of his best friends sitting in the house. The friend smiled rather sadly and raised his foot to show the sole of his shoe (this was an inside joke between them) and thereupon vanished. He promptly told his father about this strange event, and the latter replied, "Your friend must have just died." Shortly thereafter they got word that the friend had indeed died...just about the time my pal's father had seen him!

    A somewhat similar story, not strictly a ghost story but involving ESP: On August 9, 1928, my great-aunt Henriette was riding in carriage in a park at a resort in Holland. Suddenly she began weeping uncontrollably. "Something terrible has happened to Franz [her brother, my grandfather], I just know it!" she sobbed. When she got back to the hotel, she learned that he had just died of a heart attack on the beach at Scheveningen after rescuing a woman from drowing. He was only 40.

    Another story involving her has nothing supernatural about it, but just goes to show that the real world can be much more horrifying than the shadowy world of the supernatural and living men greater demons than any spook! After Indonesia gained its independence from the Dutch in 1949, Henriette and her husband chose to remain living in their home on the island of Bali. One night in October of 1950, she, her husband and another Dutch couple were sitting on the veranda of their home playing cards. Suddenly armed natives came rushing out of the night and cut down her husband and the other couple and hacked them to pieces. In the midst of this carnage, Henriette threw herself on the floor and played possum. Amid all the blood, the natives assumed she too was dead and did not harm her. She had to lie for some time in a welter of gore next to her hacked-up husband, but finally the natives left and she survived unscathed.

    For all today's talk about post-traumatic stress, she seemed to have been comparatively unaffected by psychic trauma. I met her about 3 1/2 years later. She seemed very calm and cheerful, giving no indicator of the horrific ordeal she had been through not that long before. I just remember that her hair was snow-white (perhaps from the shock, I wondered) and she looked very old, even though she was only 59, but then I suppose most 59-year-olds look pretty ancient to a 12-year-old boy. She lived well into her 90s and seems to have had a pleasant old age, spending much of her time travelling the world with a considerably younger boyfriend.
     
  13. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    The James Randi Educational Foundation offers a million dollars for proof that any phenomena, including EVP, are caused paranormally. The prize remains uncollected.

    Interesting. I wonder what the criteria of "paranormal" activity is. If you are in a silent room with a recording device and asking direct questions and getting a direct response to the question or prompt when playing back the recording, I don't see how that is not "paranormal." It certainly isn't normal. What's even better is investigating in a foreign locale and having the voice on the recording respond in the native language to a question asked in English, especially when the language/dialect is hardly used anymore, but can be translated as a response to the original question.
     
  14. acidboy

    acidboy Senior member

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    Another ghost story that comes to mind:

    When I was at Oxford, I spent a few days visiting with one of my closest friends there. His father told me that, as a younger man, one day he unexpectedly came upon one of his best friends sitting in the house. The friend smiled rather sadly and raised his foot to show the sole of his shoe (this was an inside joke between them) and thereupon vanished. He promptly told his father about this strange event, and the latter replied, "Your friend must have just died." Shortly thereafter they got word that the friend had indeed died...just about the time my pal's father had seen him!

    A somewhat similar story, not strictly a ghost story but involving ESP: On August 9, 1928, my great-aunt Henriette was riding in carriage in a park at a resort in Holland. Suddenly she began weeping uncontrollably. "Something terrible has happened to Franz [her brother, my grandfather], I just know it!" she sobbed. When she got back to the hotel, she learned that he had just died of a heart attack on the beach at Scheveningen after rescuing a woman from drowing. He was only 40.

    Another story involving her has nothing supernatural about it, but just goes to show that the real world can be much more horrifying than the shadowy world of the supernatural and living men greater demons than any spook! After Indonesia gained its independence from the Dutch in 1949, Henriette and her husband chose to remain living in their home on the island of Bali. One night in October of 1950, she, her husband and another Dutch couple were sitting on the veranda of their home playing cards. Suddenly armed natives came rushing out of the night and cut down her husband and the other couple and hacked them to pieces. In the midst of this carnage, Henriette threw herself on the floor and played possum. Amid all the blood, the natives assumed she too was dead and did not harm her. She had to lie for some time in a welter of gore next to her hacked-up husband, but finally the natives left and she survived unscathed.

    For all today's talk about post-traumatic stress, she seemed to have been comparatively unaffected by psychic trauma. I met her about 3 1/2 years later. She seemed very calm and cheerful, giving no indicator of the horrific ordeal she had been through not that long before. I just remember that her hair was snow-white (perhaps from the shock, I wondered) and she looked very old, even though she was only 59, but then I suppose most 59-year-olds look pretty ancient to a 12-year-old boy. She lived well into her 90s and seems to had a pleasant old age, spending much of her time travelling the world with a considerably younger boyfriend.


    Wow, your Aunt Henriette seems to have had a fascinating life. If only she had a memoir.
     
  15. cantona

    cantona Well-Known Member

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    I believe there is objective/scientific evidence of ghosts. There are documented cases of EVP and the like occurring all the time.

    EVP (Electronic voice phenomena) are scientific evidence AGAINST the existence of ghosts or other paranormal (aka fake, imaginary) creatures. There is extensive data disproving the belief that these 'recordings' are infact messages left to us by spirits. I quick search through google into proper scientific, referenced and cited websites will reveal all the information you need (I recommend looking at pareidolia). Alternatively a visit to your local college campus library will also be fruitful.

    The very fact that people like to use these EVP's as supposed evidence towards there belief in ghosts, spirits etc reveals exactly what mind set thay are in. They will review hard, unbiased and uncomprising evidence to the contrary and still somehow come to the conclusion that a supernatural force is involved. To believe in the existence of ghosts is to debase the very intelligence you are granted as a human being.

    PS. However, I would also like to add that believing in ghosts/spirits seems to cause no huge harm to people and therefore is of little consequence. Very few people run there lives in accordance to there paranormal (religion not included) beliefs and therefore it could be seen as 'harmless fun'. After all there are far worse crimes in the world to get riled at !
     
  16. converge

    converge Senior member

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    Astonishing to throw in God with fairies and leprechauns, because they are pretty similar, right? Not to get into a whole discussion of religion or the metapysical, but what the hell do you think happens when someone dies? That they just vanish?

    Yes, they are similar. All things for which there is zero scientific evidence.
     
  17. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Sorry, science doesn't explain everything. Who came up with science? Man did. So science is limited to whatever means man can come up with for measuring, quantifying or testing things. Not surprising man has yet to come up with some method for proving the existence of something greater than itself.
     
  18. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Well, I prefer reading the anecdotal stuff people post saying they've seen over watching filmed "evidence" or studying the attempts at technological measurement of ghosts, which generally seems like bad pseudoscience.
     
  19. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    It's interesting: In the course of this thread nine posters have claimed to have seen apparitions of some sort or experienced poltergeist-like phenomena. (I have deliberately omitted "chills," "creepy feelings" and similar stuff that could be subjective.) I have cited seven cases where people I have known personally have claimed to have seen ghosts. (And I've got another good one coming up.) Other posters have cited some 13 cases where people known to them have experienced ghosts or poltergeists. (I eliminated one because it sounded too much like something out of the "Goosebumps" stories.)

    In the face of so many first- and second-hand accounts, I am little surprised so many posters seem so adamant about the non-existence of ghosts. In the face of so much personal experience, I wonder why so many seem positively eager to rule out even the possibility of the paranormal. Perhaps something that shakes their preconceived views on the nature of matter and mind seems even more scary to them than to those of us who are more open-minded about such things.
     
  20. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    It's interesting: In the course of this thread nine posters have claimed to have seen apparitions of some sort or experienced poltergeist-like phenomena. (I have deliberately omitted "chills," "creepy feelings" and similar stuff that could be subjective.) I have cited seven cases where people I have known personally have claimed to have seen ghosts. (And I've got another good one coming up.) Other posters have cited some 13 cases where people known to them have experienced ghosts or poltergeists. (I eliminated one because it sounded too much like something out of the "Goosebumps" stories.)

    In the face of so many first- and second-hand accounts, I am little surprised so many posters seem so adamant about the non-existence of ghosts. In the face of so much personal experience, I wonder why so many seem positively eager to rule out even the possibility of the paranormal. Perhaps something that shakes their preconceived views on the nature of matter and mind seems even more scary to them than to those of us who are more open-minded about such things.


    I'm not so surprised. These people are pretty much non-religious as well and they think their death will be like their pre-existence - a non-event. They didn't know they were alive before birth, so they won't know of any existence after they die. There is no belief in the soul and the energy associated with people which continues past physical existence. IMO, a short-sided view of life, but they are entitled to it. As I may have written in the past, you'll be proven wrong when I meet you on the other side one of these days. But introduce me by your SF name since I dont' know your real one.
     

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