Equus Leather - English Handstitched Bridle Leather Belts - Official Affiliate and Review Thread

[marlinspike]

I'm sorry for everyone who had an order pending, but especially sorry for Charlie and Dawn. This was obviously their passion in addition to their business, and they were great craftspeople and wonderful to deal with. It's a pity that it's so difficult to manage these kinds of businesses in the current economic environment.

The business went bankrupt, not them. They pocketed people's money and ran. That's how it works. It's just business, and that's how it goes, but I wouldn't feel bad for them. They could have reached out to customers, tried to make things right, etc, but that's being decent, not just doing business. What they did from all appearances was business, and just business, and to hell with the customer, so why care for them more than they cared for the customer?

 

[MattyS]

The business went bankrupt, not them. They pocketed people's money and ran. That's how it works. It's just business, and that's how it goes, but I wouldn't feel bad for them. They could have reached out to customers, tried to make things right, etc, but that's being decent, not just doing business. What they did from all appearances was business, and just business, and to hell with the customer, so why care for them more than they cared for the customer?

The betrays a depressing lack of understanding of how bankruptcy proceedings work. For a small company like this, it's going to be very hard for them to hide whatever money you think they ran away with. The problem is that they owed more money than they had (and had any prospect of making). It's highly unlikely that they're going to pocket any of the money that customers like us have lost. That money will go to their other creditors.

 

[marlinspike]

The betrays a depressing lack of understanding of how bankruptcy proceedings work. For a small company like this, it's going to be very hard for them to hide whatever money you think they ran away with. The problem is that they owed more money than they had (and had any prospect of making). It's highly unlikely that they're going to pocket any of the money that customers like us have lost. That money will go to their other creditors.

Neither of us have any idea what salary they were paying themselves while the company wasn't meeting its obligations, or how much they leveraged the company to pay themselves. Plenty of bankruptcies enrich the C-suite on the way out, small and big.

 

[patrick_b]

Neither of us have any idea

Exactly. So your claim that they "ran away" with all that belt money is also pure speculation.

 

[marlinspike]

Exactly. So your claim that they "ran away" with all that belt money is also pure speculation.

You think they took 0 salary? I said people's money, I made no claim to know how much it was. There are companies in history that have fulfilled customer orders as they go into insolvency.

 

[LA Guy]

Neither of us have any idea what salary they were paying themselves while the company wasn't meeting its obligations, or how much they leveraged the company to pay themselves. Plenty of bankruptcies enrich the C-suite on the way out, small and big.

Companies this small don’t have a C-Suite. This is a family business going under. No one makes a boatload of money when this happens. Unlike large corporations, the fortunes of the company and that of the individual owners are rarely decoupled. I’m not defending the decisions that they made, but while I cannot know for sure, they nearly certainly did not enrich themselves. Otherwise they would still have a company.

 

[nmprisons]

It's wild to me that folks with enough money to be buying bespoke leather goods can't conceptualize how little money there is in a mom and pop leather goods store. They didn't have some factory full of outworkers. They didn't own the tannery or the metalworks or the farm. They were effectively selling their own labor in the form of a limited number of relatively inexpensive products ($150 - $700). They got behind on their bills, couldn't catch up despite trying and pouring effort and time and money back into the business, and had no choice but to fold. There's no hidden account in the Caymans. These are good folks who are way worse off because their business folded than any of us are for losing a few dollars on luxury goods.

 

[marlinspike]

You're right guys, I'm sorry. My sympathies lie with the people who at least at some point knew they were taking orders they wouldn't fulfill. I will now feel badly for those who mismanaged a business into insolvency and only direct shame on the people who lost money because they dared take them at their word and prepay.

 

[Haagendazs]

Lol that's pretty salty

 

[bjhofkin]

Neither of us have any idea what salary they were paying themselves while the company wasn't meeting its obligations, or how much they leveraged the company to pay themselves. Plenty of bankruptcies enrich the C-suite on the way out, small and big.

The "C-suite"…😂

 

[ValidusLA]

I think there is probably not going to be a lot of meeting of ways between those who feel personally aggrieved and those taking a more measured approach.

I think a more interesting question would be around best practices for other small artisans.

The things that come to mind for me are:
- Were they, in fact, charging too little to sustain their business?
- What should best payment practices be for smaller artisans of this type? My bespoke tailors generally take half up front and half on delivery. Chester Mox does the same for custom stuff I'm working on with them right now.

 

[marlinspike]

The "C-suite"…😂

Companies this small don’t have a C-Suite.

Hence "big and small." If you're telling me this incorporated limited liability business has no executive manager, then it is no wonder they folded. If you're telling me 1 guy did 3 of the jobs, that's what makes it "small" as opposed to "big." It's neither here nor there, as I have now seen the light and am doing the important work of sending them thoughts and prayers that they are able to cope with the injustices against them by those who gave them money for promised goods which they did not deliver.

 

[TimothyF]

It's wild to me that folks with enough money to be buying bespoke leather goods can't conceptualize how little money there is in a mom and pop leather goods store. They didn't have some factory full of outworkers. They didn't own the tannery or the metalworks or the farm. They were effectively selling their own labor in the form of a limited number of relatively inexpensive products ($150 - $700). They got behind on their bills, couldn't catch up despite trying and pouring effort and time and money back into the business, and had no choice but to fold. There's no hidden account in the Caymans. These are good folks who are way worse off because their business folded than any of us are for losing a few dollars on luxury goods.

Lol so that makes them a charity and we (bespoke buyers, who you are assuming are all so well off that a few hundred bucks wouldn't hurt) should be happy to donate to their cause?

I'll grant your premise. Most of the costs of a belt = cost of leather + their labor. I know the owner can sew, and assuming their workstation isn't padlocked, he can't go in, use his tools, remaining leather, and (you know) spend the needed time to churn out customers' paid-for belts? Or, if the above assumption isn't sound, then assuming he hasn't declared personal bankruptcy, then it costs what, some hundred bucks, or even $1000, to buy the hides and sewing supplies?

 

[bjhofkin]

Hence "big and small." If you're telling me this incorporated limited liability business has no executive manager, then it is no wonder they folded. If you're telling me 1 guy did 3 of the jobs, that's what makes it "small" as opposed to "big." It's neither here nor there, as I have now seen the light and am doing the important work of sending them thoughts and prayers that they are able to cope with the injustices against them by those who gave them money for promised goods which they did not deliver.

This is (obviously) a straw man; no one's saying the owners didn't make mistakes, let alone that they're victims.

I just think there's some reasonable limit to how upset people with unfulfilled orders ought to be.

And that the owners themselves are – by far – the worst affected by the demise of their business.

 

[bjhofkin]

Lol so that makes them a charity and we (bespoke buyers, who you are assuming are all so well off that a few hundred bucks wouldn't hurt) should be happy to donate to their cause?

I'll grant your premise. Most of the costs of a belt = cost of leather + their labor. I know the owner can sew, and assuming their workstation isn't padlocked, he can't go in, use his tools, remaining leather, and (you know) spend the needed time to churn out customers' paid-for belts? Or, if the above assumption isn't sound, then assuming he hasn't declared personal bankruptcy, then it costs what, some hundred bucks, or even $1000, to buy the hides and sewing supplies?

He lost his tools and supplies in the settlement and has had to find a way to provide for his family by other means.

You really expect him to dip into whatever savings he has – and spend the time he has outside his new work – making good on those orders?