Cad and the Dandy - An honest assessment

[Alan Bee]

That’s fairly strong. From the photo what led you to say that other than the trousers, which I agree are an embarrassment.

@ThePetros

Where do I even begin??

1. The back is a complete mess. Pulling in every direction possible.
2. Who ever cut those sleeves honestly should be barred from ever handling a pair of shears, forever ...
3. Shoulders probably too small. Look at the divots in the sleeves (from the back photo).
4. Styling: Front Photo - Proportions are completely off for a guy your size. Gorge is way too high and the peak lapels clownish on your frame.

Really I could sit here and come up with 20 things wrong with this suit but I'm pressed for time. The suit is cut "too small" first off, and who ever did the initial measuring screwed up big time.

Secondly, the styling. Now, since this is your first bespoke suit, I'm sure you had some input here. But part of the job of a good tailor is to protect us from our own excesses. The hacking & ticket pockets, Singe breasted peak lapel, High Gorge etc. They could have helped you style this better (more classically).

I'm not even going to comment on the trousers since you've already done a good job at diagnosing the pants. But whoever gave you a 15" leg opening and that slim a cut for your trousers very clearly don't know what they are doing.

When will these guys realize that no every fellow is a SuitSupply Ad model? Trying to squeeze folk into Skinny Suits. It's 2019 and I thought we were way past that. And for a tailor of this caliber, now that's just unforgivable.

Alan Bee

 

[Sleats]

Hi Petros,

Thanks for the review and feedback. Certainly never our intention to ever be dismissive or unwelcoming at all. I very much try and run the company to the exact opposite as I know so many people feel hugely intimidated by traditional Savile Row.
That being said Alan above mentions SuitSupply and that is also not at all what we are aiming for indeed we are members of the Savile Row Bespoke assoc.
The cloth is very light at 7oz which is always an added challenge but as your wedding is overseas and expecting to be super hot I gather that was what was called for. Styles are always subjective and obviously only try and do what is calIed for. I would be very happy to meet again after your wedding/honeymoon - please do let me know if that works for you and in the meantime I hope the wedding and the rest of the last minute items all fall into place for a wonderful day.

My direct email is [email protected]
Alternatively my phone is 07595024724

 

[Alan Bee]

Hi Petros,

Thanks for the review and feedback. Certainly never our intention to ever be dismissive or unwelcoming at all. I very much try and run the company to the exact opposite as I know so many people feel hugely intimidated by traditional Savile Row.
That being said Alan above mentions SuitSupply and that is also not at all what we are aiming for indeed we are members of the Savile Row Bespoke assoc.
The cloth is very light at 7oz which is always an added challenge but as your wedding is overseas and expecting to be super hot I gather that was what was called for. Styles are always subjective and obviously only try and do what is calIed for. I would be very happy to meet again after your wedding/honeymoon - please do let me know if that works for you and in the meantime I hope the wedding and the rest of the last minute items all fall into place for a wonderful day.

My direct email is [email protected]
Alternatively my phone is 07595024724

@Sleats

Sir, I have no dog in this fight but this is an absolute disgrace to your brand and you should have began your response with a sincere apology and not excuses.

It really doesn’t matter if that suit was made in tissue paper, the client @ThePetros should have never been even allowed to see that suit in that condition much less being “shoved out the door”.

The client is a first time bespoke customer and I’m willing to wager he made that clear to your guys. The man is a bespoke novice (as he said), isn’t it your job to point him to the “right cloth”? Assuming ventilation was a major consideration.

I can think of any number of fabrics which drape well and could have been suggested to the client for a destination wedding summer suit.

You sir, need to offer an unreserved apology for this caricature of a suit. I mean how on gods green earth does a “Savile Row” trained tailor cut a 15” leg opening for a guy this big with a 40” waist?? That is as primary as it get, even my 10 year old knows this is aesthetically wrong.

I say all this with the knowledge you can do much better because I’ve seen other other finished products by Cad & Dandy.

Alan Bee

 

[ThePetros]

@Sleats

Sir, I have no dog in this fight but this is an absolute disgrace to your brand and you should have began your response with a sincere apology and not excuses.

It really doesn’t matter if that suit was made in tissue paper, the client @ThePetros should have never been even allowed to see that suit in that condition much less being “shoved out the door”.

The client is a first time bespoke customer and I’m willing to wager he made that clear to your guys. The man is a bespoke novice (as he said), isn’t it your job to point him to the “right cloth”? Assuming ventilation was a major consideration.

I can think of any number of fabrics which drape well and could have been suggested to the client for a destination wedding summer suit.

You sir, need to offer an unreserved apology for this caricature of a suit. I mean how on gods green earth does a “Savile Row” trained tailor cut a 15” leg opening for a guy this big with a 40” waist?? That is as primary as it get, even my 10 year old knows this is aesthetically wrong.

I say all this with the knowledge you can do much better because I’ve seen other other finished products by Cad & Dandy.

Alan Bee

Hi @Alan Bee - just to let you and the forum know that I just had a productive conversation with @Sleats at Cad.

For what it's worth, he did apologize for the experience and was quite forthright in trying to make it right. Not being able to resolve this before my wedding aside - he did ask I come in when return from my wedding to make the alterations left. He also offered to produce another suit for me at cost, which I will take up the offer on. So I'm willing to give CATD another chance, as I, too, have seen more positive results of their work.

This doesn't change my initial experience, or any other errors of communication, advice, etc... but to their credit - CATD is trying to make it right. I am happy to share that experience with you all.

 

[Alan Bee]

Hi @Alan Bee - just to let you and the forum know that I just had a productive conversation with @Sleats at Cad.

For what it's worth, he did apologize for the experience and was quite forthright in trying to make it right. Not being able to resolve this before my wedding aside - he did ask I come in when return from my wedding to make the alterations left. He also offered to produce another suit for me at cost, which I will take up the offer on. So I'm willing to give CATD another chance, as I, too, have seen more positive results of their work.

This doesn't change my initial experience, or any other errors of communication, advice, etc... but to their credit - CATD is trying to make it right. I am happy to share that experience with you all.

@ThePetros

I’m happy they’ve agreed to put things right. They should begin with retrieving that suit and offering to remake it entirely. I don’t know where you even begin to alter that suit.

But I’ll leave it up to you.

Alan Bee

 

[ThePetros]

@ThePetros

I’m happy they’ve agreed to put things right. They should begin with retrieving that suit and offering to remake it entirely. I don’t know where you even begin to alter that suit.

But I’ll leave it up to you.

Alan Bee

Well - styling aside - whether the suit needs to be remade in order to fix the remaining issues, I wouldn't know, to be honest. Again, this is why you go to professionals and try to leave it to professionals and their advice.

However, allow me to clarify my previous statement as I think we may have had some confusion, @Alan Bee. CATD offered to make a second suit at cost - not remake this one at cost.

 

[lordsuperb]

Well - styling aside - whether the suit needs to be remade in order to fix the remaining issues, I wouldn't know, to be honest. Again, this is why you go to professionals and try to leave it to professionals and their advice.

However, allow me to clarify my previous statement as I think we may have had some confusion, @Alan Bee. CATD offered to make a second suit at cost - not remake this one at cost.

Use a heavier fabric on the next suit.

 

[ThePetros]

Use a heavier fabric on the next suit.

I think that goes without say. Wish I got that memo the first time....

 

[classicalthunde]

I think that goes without say. Wish I got that memo the first time....

going forward, if overheating is a concern i'd suggest using a heavier open weave like Minnis Fresco or Drapers Ascot...they run at 10 and 13 oz respectively, but have a lot of airflow due to the open nature of the weave, so therefore will drape better than lighter fabrics while also remaining as cool if not cooler than a 7oz twill (i made a similar mistake with my tuxedo for my August wedding unfortunately)

Also for what its worth, we're probably about the same size (5'8", 215lbs, 39" waist) - I got an undarted tweed sports coat cause i thought it would be more comfortable and it fit the ivy-style aesthetic I was going for, but after wearing for a while it a bit i've found there is no discernible difference in comfort and that the shape of a darted jacket offers a much better silhouette that makes the suit look nicer (YMMV, I carry most of my weight up top in a barrel chest as opposed to love handles). Also, echoing @Alan Bee's suggestions, I tend to opt for a middle gorge height, wide lapels (9.5-10cm measured directly across), and lower buttoning stance for proportionality sake

 

[ThePetros]

going forward, if overheating is a concern i'd suggest using a heavier open weave like Minnis Fresco or Drapers Ascot...they run at 10 and 13 oz respectively, but have a lot of airflow due to the open nature of the weave, so therefore will drape better than lighter fabrics while also remaining as cool if not cooler than a 7oz twill (i made a similar mistake with my tuxedo for my August wedding unfortunately)

Also for what its worth, we're probably about the same size (5'8", 215lbs, 39" waist) - I got an undarted tweed sports coat cause i thought it would be more comfortable and it fit the ivy-style aesthetic I was going for, but after wearing for a while it a bit i've found there is no discernible difference in comfort and that the shape of a darted jacket offers a much better silhouette that makes the suit look nicer (YMMV, I carry most of my weight up top in a barrel chest as opposed to love handles). Also, echoing @Alan Bee's suggestions, I tend to opt for a middle gorge height, wide lapels (9.5-10cm measured directly across), and lower buttoning stance for proportionality sake

Sorry for the miscommunication - it is darted. It was just not done adequately.

Also again - no advice was given on fabric in the preliminary stages. I was just pointed at the summer weight ones, not a lot of information on what they meant for structure or style. They just asked if I preferred wool or wanted something linen/cotton. I opted for the wool-silk blend. That's all I really know about the subject. ::shrugs::

 

[polyfusion]

Long time reader first time poster (!) I have stalked the SF for some time, but this post reminded me too much of my own experience.

I bought some shirts from here a while back, and though they are wearable, the customer service was not good - the lady who advised me (though nice enough) clearly knew nothing about mens shirting.
I was poorly advised on all points - from details, to fabrics. The final shirts fitted, but were absolutely nothing like I had asked for in the brief.
It is only having now bought several more shirts from Luca Avitabile, Norton and Budd (luca being the best of the three) that i know what dealing with a real shirt makers is supposed to be like.
The fitting was also very poor. There appears to be a few experienced people here (as evidenced from my measuring process, which was excellent), but in all other aspects i was given trainees at best and left very disappointed.

Edited to tone down initial exasperation.

 

[Sleats]

@polyfusion

Apologies for your experience.
Would you mind contacting me with you name and details so I can look into this for you and endeavour to put it right.

Best

James

 

[polyfusion]

Hi @Sleats (and apologies to @ThePetros for hijacking the thread here.)

I don't really want to get too into it tbh. I have worn the shirts and moved on. That said, thank you for your reply. There are few things however i would like to clarify here as I realise that the internet has a habit of over accentuating negatives, of which above i too have been guilty, so for the sake of balance i would like to add some more positive aspects of the experience beyond my clear initial annoyance.

1. I do wear these shirts, and they fit well following a few changes. I have also had compliments on the fit. The gentlemen who took the first measurements was clearly knowledgable. In fact, i have been measured differently a few times now and i always correct their measurements to the ones the c&d employee took if they differ.
2. It was quick, and i think if you know your way around swatch books and fabrics and need no advice, C&D is quite affordable when buying more than one piece. If i go back to wearing shirts every day in the office, i would consider making a bulk order with C&D as it seems to offer reasonable value.

When i sat down with other makers, i have found them to be excellent at guiding me through the process. At C&D i was basically left with a swatch book and someone who did not know the fabrics, the difference in formality levels of collars or try to understand what i was after - i wanted casual weekend shirts, when in fact i was left with strange hybrid formal shirts that are hard to wear.

I put it down to a clearly inexperienced member of staff. I don't doubt that you have better people working there too. Unfortunately, i was inexperienced too at this point, so it was an expensive mistake.

Unless buying a large order, as stated above, i would not return to C&D, but for the sake of public record, i would not actually discourage other people from c&d if:

1. They have a level of experience buying custom clothing that means they are able to hold their own in the decision making and fitting process.
2. They ask to see a senior member of staff for the consultation and fitting.

 

[Sleats]

Thank you for your detailed reply and I am always available if you do want to ever have a chat etc etc.

Best

J

 

[ThePetros]

For what it’s worth, here are some preliminary pictures from the wedding. I wore the suit for a few hours for 3 days before the wedding, then took to a reputable dry cleaners for a proper pressing the day before the wedding.

On the day of the wedding, yhe trousers wound up very messy, indeed - pulling and twisting once the heat and humidity set in. The waistcoat wound up looking as if it was on too tight, pulling at the buttons, even though it fit fine.

And the jacket, while looking ok from the front. Was very messy on the back.

I wound up taking everything off, save the trousers halfway through the night just to avoid looking more frumpy in photos

I fear what the professional pictures will look like. This wasn’t the crisp wedding suit that I was hoping for...