Cad and the Dandy - An honest assessment

[taxgenius]

Why would you spend money (even at “cost”) for a second suit when they haven’t shown they can do a proper suit? Shouldn’t they just redo this suit and call it a day?

 

[polyfusion]

Yes i know i was a negative voice on this thread... but also, some of this (the wrinkling for example) appears to be a choice of fabric, as oppose to tailoring. Not totally sure C&D are entirely responsible for that?
That said i do believe all tailors need to emphasise this point to customers. I certainly felt in my shirting experience that i wasn't given any guidance to fabrics, and having now worked with other shirtmakers, i realise working with someone who seriously knows their fabrics is indispensible.
I normally choose heavier fabrics for this reason, even in summer, because i hate creasing.

ANYWAY - a final point. Don't let the suit be a negative at your wedding. It may not be perfect in your eyes, but you still look great, and better than 95% of grooms i've seen in OTR suits, and i'm sure everyone thought you looked great. Congratulations!

 

[ThePetros]

Yes i know i was a negative voice on this thread... but also, some of this (the wrinkling for example) appears to be a choice of fabric, as oppose to tailoring. Not totally sure C&D are entirely responsible for that?
That said i do believe all tailors need to emphasise this point to customers. I certainly felt in my shirting experience that i wasn't given any guidance to fabrics, and having now worked with other shirtmakers, i realise working with someone who seriously knows their fabrics is indispensible.
I normally choose heavier fabrics for this reason, even in summer, because i hate creasing.

ANYWAY - a final point. Don't let the suit be a negative at your wedding. It may not be perfect in your eyes, but you still look great, and better than 95% of grooms i've seen in OTR suits, and i'm sure everyone thought you looked great. Congratulations!

Totally concede to your point. I now understand the fabric is what it is. But as I mentioned further up the thread - I wasn't given any guidance whatsoever on the fabric. I told them I wanted something breathable for a summer wedding in a hot climate and I was pointed to swatches - that was it. Nothing about what would be best for the look I was going for - just "those are the summer fabrics". I didn't walk into the shop asking for this specific fabric, swatch in hand.

Also, I made it clear that I wanted a crisp wedding suit. If the fabric I chose was in direct conflict of this, should I not have been advised? I'm not a tailor and this was my first bespoke experience. For me not to be given any guidance on something so massive as to how a particular fabric will look and then be given as an excuse as to why the suit doesn't look the way I wanted it to is not right.

I won't go into it any further as anyone can go back up and read my experiences up until this point and what has led me here.

 

[polyfusion]

Totally concede to your point. I now understand the fabric is what it is. But as I mentioned further up the thread - I wasn't given any guidance whatsoever on the fabric. I told them I wanted something breathable for a summer wedding in a hot climate and I was pointed to swatches - that was it. Nothing about what would be best for the look I was going for - just "those are the summer fabrics". I didn't walk into the shop asking for this specific fabric, swatch in hand.

Also, I made it clear that I wanted a crisp wedding suit. If the fabric I chose was in direct conflict of this, should I not have been advised? I'm not a tailor and this was my first bespoke experience. For me not to be given any guidance on something so massive as to how a particular fabric will look and then be given as an excuse as to why the suit doesn't look the way I wanted it to is not right.

I won't go into it any further as anyone can go back up and read my experiences up until this point and what has led me here.

Yes, to be fair - exactly the same issue i had at C&D. I asked for crisp, and was given a swatch and no guidance.

 

[9thsymph]

Needless to say, any tailor that lets you walk out with an obviously ill-fitting suit should be avoided. It means they just don't care. Whatever the reason: the cloth, body type, etc...They should make a properly fitting garment or make it over. Period. I mean, a first commission is often not as good as subsequent ones, but if the tailor can't be bothered to deliver a wearable garment then it's obviously a really bad sign.

I had a similar experience to the OP's with a "tailor" in NYC. They always tried to make excuses for issues and always made me feel petty for pointing out things that were obviously wrong. I was very unhappy, but thought that perhaps it was my fault, or that it was just how the custom clothing process worked - until...

I switched to another tailor and experienced an entirely different level of competence and respect at every point in the process. For example, my tailor's house style often includes a jacket with a fairly pinched waist, which on the occasion of my first commission I deferred to throughout the fitting process. I received the final acket and it looked great. There was certainly nothing wrong with the fit, but I still felt slightly uncomfortable with the waist suppression. My tailor thought the jacket looked great, but noticed my concern and gladly offered to let out the waist. I said I would wear the jacket a bit before deciding on alterations. Despite my apprehensions about the waist, I was pleased enough to place another order, which turned out even better. I then placed another that was better still etc...

However, three years later I brought in that first jacket and said "I think after wearing this for some time now that I'd like the waist let out a bit" to which my tailor simply replied "Certainly, sir. No problem. We are happy to do it!"

My point is that this type of service exists (even when there are no actual mistakes, but rather slight differences in preference). And if the first suit goes well, everything that follows usually gets even better.

Don't get me wrong, all tailors do make mistakes (as mine has...). It's only a real problem if they don't acknowledge their mistakes and take action to fix the mistakes (at no extra cost!) without making the customer feel in the wrong.

On another note, though, you might consider staying out of the tailors way sometimes. On matters of proportion, for instance (size and position of pocket flaps, position of gorge and buttoning point...) you may want to let them do their own thing on your first order and then get more involved with those details on subsequent orders? Just my 2cents

 

[ThePetros]

Hey all,

Just wanted to give another update. Finally made it back to CATD last night. I can confirm that the gents there really came through.

James was shocked at how the fabric came out looking after wearing the suit - so much so that he said he will never make a suit it in ever again. He offered to make the remaining alterations on the suit - but because it came out looking this messy - offered to make a new suit free of charge.

It doesn’t change how everything looked on the wedding day, but they admitted the problems with the suit and the fabric full stop and have done everything to rectify it. I’m very pleased.

 

[JJ Katz]

For all the posters fulminating about your experience, I call CATD’s reaction handsome (though appropriate).
In three decades in London I’ve
VERY seldom encountered this attitude. It’s usually more along the lines of a politely worded “so sue us”.

 

[ThePetros]

For all the posters fulminating about your experience, I call CATD’s reaction handsome (though appropriate).
In three decades in London I’ve
VERY seldom encountered this attitude. It’s usually more along the lines of a politely worded “so sue us”.

I thought so too.

Btw, is that actually true that they’ve taken such a confrontational tone? That’s genuinely shocking to me.

 

[polyfusion]

I agree that is an excellent response- I appreciated James’s response to me as well.
Tbh this is all I’ve ever hoped for from bespoke.. a tailor who cares about the result ans your happiness with the garment and one who will help you get to it despite any twists and turns.

 

[ThePetros]

Hey all,

Just some good news from my side - I've just received the grey suit back from Cad and it's really a huge improvement. They fixed a lot of the issues with the suit - albeit the fabric is what it is - the suit is in a much better state now than it was for the wedding. They've resolved much of the issues with the shoulders, bunching in the back, as well as taken it in to create a much nicer silhouette.

Also, the new double-breasted suit they made up for me is almost done - just undergoing a few nips and tucks to get it spot on. But otherwise, I'm very pleased.

I'll post pictures of both suits once I get it and when I have some daylight to not have potato quality images.

I wanted to give a special shout out to @Sleats for going above and beyond to rectify this, and John Baker at Cad for walking me through this process since coming back.

For anyone interested in commissioning Cad for anything, I can thoroughly and highly recommend John. He was very attentive to my requests and gave thoughtful advice on styling the suit. The experience with him was night and day from that the first time around. Coincidentally, he also managed my friend's suit (who referred me to Cad in the first place).

Will have further details in the coming days - stay tuned.

 

[moltoelegante]

Glad that you resolved this to your satisfaction. However, it does raise questions about why your suit wasn't delivered at that standard the first time. Being pushed out the door with a "it'll fix itself" excuse is unacceptable but I understand that it could be down to a single individual or two and not company policy.

 

[taxgenius]

Glad that you resolved this to your satisfaction. However, it does raise questions about why your suit wasn't delivered at that standard the first time. Being pushed out the door with a "it'll fix itself" excuse is unacceptable but I understand that it could be down to a single individual or two and not company policy.

And it’s stories like this, any my own experience with bespoke, that has turned me back to OTR with expensive tailoring. I now buy Ring Jacket and Belvest and spend the money on quality tailoring where needed.

 

[ThePetros]

I can confirm this isn't company policy. This time around, we had no hard deadline and we did diagnose the fabric being the cause of the many problems around it. It's by no means perfect - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to commission a suit with that fabric (even for a casual suit) - but the suit already exists so I'll probably wear it some more.

Only because you mentioned it, I should highlight the circumstances around my situation were not ideal. Even though I had come in from early-March for a deadline for a mid-August wedding, the time between fittings was very long as I'm sure they were busy in the pre-wedding rush. Towards the end, there was simply not the time to fix the remaining problems. I'll admit the original review was written in absolute exasperation. Not to say anything I wrote was false - but my tone reflected my feelings at the time... The fittings were going nowhere with a suit not fit for purpose made with an ill-advised fabric, and a wedding the following week. To be frank - I was furious. In retrospect and clarity of mind - this was, in my opinion, the faults of a selected few at the firm who did not take all these issues into account while managing my customer experience and the end product - not the firm.

While facts are still the facts I do believe - had we had an extra 2 weeks to resolve these issues, I'm sure we would have been able to get the suit to the condition it is in today.

I only mention all this for posterity. I don't want anyone to think Cad is unilaterally like this. My experience after has been nothing short of perfect.

@taxgenius I get your sentiment. It puts a lot more pressure on the garment and raises expectations significantly. For sure, I had that with the first suit. Fearing you are not completely satisfied and not getting value for money does put a damper on the experience. With OTR you can try it on and take it over leave it. It's your choice. Once locked into a commission, you're in it - win or lose.

 

[dauster]

I can confirm this isn't company policy. This time around, we had no hard deadline and we did diagnose the fabric being the cause of the many problems around it. It's by no means perfect - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to commission a suit with that fabric (even for a casual suit) - but the suit already exists so I'll probably wear it some more.

Only because you mentioned it, I should highlight the circumstances around my situation were not ideal. Even though I had come in from early-March for a deadline for a mid-August wedding, the time between fittings was very long as I'm sure they were busy in the pre-wedding rush. Towards the end, there was simply not the time to fix the remaining problems. I'll admit the original review was written in absolute exasperation. Not to say anything I wrote was false - but my tone reflected my feelings at the time... The fittings were going nowhere with a suit not fit for purpose made with an ill-advised fabric, and a wedding the following week. To be frank - I was furious. In retrospect and clarity of mind - this was, in my opinion, the faults of a selected few at the firm who did not take all these issues into account while managing my customer experience and the end product - not the firm.

While facts are still the facts I do believe - had we had an extra 2 weeks to resolve these issues, I'm sure we would have been able to get the suit to the condition it is in today.

I only mention all this for posterity. I don't want anyone to think Cad is unilaterally like this. My experience after has been nothing short of perfect.

@taxgenius I get your sentiment. It puts a lot more pressure on the garment and raises expectations significantly. For sure, I had that with the first suit. Fearing you are not completely satisfied and not getting value for money does put a damper on the experience. With OTR you can try it on and take it over leave it. It's your choice. Once locked into a commission, you're in it - win or lose.

Glad it worked out for you, would love to see some pics of the final remade suit.

 

[ThePetros]

So I just got my double breasted suit back and here are the results.

Starting with the original grey suit. As mentioned - they nipped in the waist a bit and narrowed the shoulders. Please don’t mind the trousers on this picture - I usually wear braces - so they were sitting a bit lower than they should. The fabric is still a great disappointment. In this picture, it was recently steamed and the back still looks like I did jujitsu in it. But, as a casual suit, it’s fine. It is without question a huge improvement from what it was at the wedding. At this point - John, James and I mutually agreed there was not much else to be done with it.

Now for the navy double breasted. I’m really very pleased with this one. 11 oz. hopsack fabric. John was very good with getting this nice and trim to the chest like I like it. Same applies for the trousers - don‘t have my braces on. It’s just a touch snug in the chest, but I want to wait for it to break in before I try to mess with it some more.

Just want to give one last shout out to @Sleats and John Baker for this - everything was fantastic. I cannot recommend John enough to you all. The experience was night and day.

What do you gents think?