english shoes quality heirachy

Leather man · Apr 6, 2010

P.S. I do groan at the fact that a couple of members have brought in Allen Edmonds and Alden to this discussion - two American companies

The OP clearly asked about English shoes!!

Its a bit like AAAC where there's very little interest in any shoe make outside AE!

If this were a thread about American shoemakers I would not inject a plug for an English make, I'd just stay out of the discussion because I have no personal experience of those makes.

Leather man · Apr 6, 2010

So to answer the OP's question here's my heirarchy - I will only include shoes I have personal experience of or about which I have spoken to people in the industry at some depth. I have no experience of John Lobb Paris.

Edward Green
Gaziano and Girling
Crockett and Jones Handgrade
Church's Royals
Church's Custom Grade
Crockett and Jones Benchgrade
Cheaney
Grenson
Alfred Sargent ( Premier and Prem Exclusive only)
Barker
Loake

cdmoore1855 · Apr 6, 2010

I would say Gaziano and Girling, Edward Green and John Lobb are the best RTW shoes made in the UK, with Crockett and Jones Handgrades coming in fourth.

-AJ- · Apr 6, 2010

Following this thread - good opinions here.

I'd like to turn the tables a little if I may (don't mean to hijack this thread).

I'm shopping for new shoes, oxfords or semi-brogues, with a budget of about GBP 150. Realise this is at the lower end of the scale, but I would value any guidance on which of the above mentioned english manufacturers I should start with. Loake are at that end of the market, but seem to have a low rep here. I found some nice C&Js, but at GBP300, it's hard for me to justify. Single income - (Wife + baby + mortgage) = -AJ- needs to keep a lid on the shopping!

Shoes will be part of a 4-pair rotation. I do walk a bit in the shoes, so sole quality is important.

Any opinions welcomed.

Ta.

ManofKent · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by -AJ-

Following this thread - good opinions here.

I'd like to turn the tables a little if I may (don't mean to hijack this thread).

I'm shopping for new shoes, oxfords or semi-brogues, with a budget of about GBP 150. Realise this is at the lower end of the scale, but I would value any guidance on which of the above mentioned english manufacturers I should start with. Loake are at that end of the market, but seem to have a low rep here. I found some nice C&Js, but at GBP300, it's hard for me to justify. Single income - (Wife + baby + mortgage) = -AJ- needs to keep a lid on the shopping!

Shoes will be part of a 4-pair rotation. I do walk a bit in the shoes, so sole quality is important.

Any opinions welcomed.

Ta.

Loake 1880 or Sanders Ambassador/Clubman ranges are both perfectly decent shoes if you're looking at a Â£150 retail budget. No leather quality and finishing isn't as good as much dearer shoes but they're perfectly decent. I own EG and C&J but it doesn't stop me wearing Sanders or Loake.

Alternatively look at the B&S forum on here or ebay - for Â£150 if you don't mind slight seconds or discontinued stock you can get some good bargains.

makewayhomer · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by ManofKent

Loake 1880 or Sanders Ambassador/Clubman ranges are both perfectly decent shoes if you're looking at a Â£150 retail budget. No leather quality and finishing isn't as good as much dearer shoes but they're perfectly decent. I own EG and C&J but it doesn't stop me wearing Sanders or Loake. Alternatively look at the B&S forum on here or ebay - for Â£150 if you don't mind slight seconds or discontinued stock you can get some good bargains.
and if you don't mind lightly used you can even do a lot better ie here, Grenson Masterpiece for $120 shipped. imo shoes worn < 10 times is really where the value curve is best. they are done with perhaps 1% of their lifespan, aren't beat up and smelly, aren't even really broken in, but can usually be bought at 60%+ off I understand that some people are a bit turned off by this, but if you have a limited budget I think it's a great move. and even if you have a largish budget, you can now buy nicer shoes for the same $ amount

DWFII · Apr 6, 2010

Maybe I missed some qualifier in the OP but I think if you're talking about English shoes you have to put John Lobb St. James Street at the top of the list in anyone's ranking.

ManofKent · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by DWFII

Maybe I missed some qualifier in the OP but I think if you're talking about English shoes you have to put John Lobb St. James Street at the top of the list in anyone's ranking.

Probably, but a lot of the comments were based on personal experience, and not all of us have run that high.

TheDarkKnight · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by ManofKent

Roughly - (but shoes vary, and it depends on how much weight you put on leather quality, construction, finishing, style etc.)

Edward Green
C&J Handgrade
Trickers
Grenson Rose
Barker Hand-crafted
Alfred Sargent Premier
C&J Benchgrade
Cheaney Signature
Church
C&J Benchgrade
Church
Cheaney (most)
Barker non-hand-crafted calf
Sanders calf
Loake 1880
Alfred Sargent Classic
Sanders non-calf, Loake non-calf, Grenson Feathermaster, Barkers non-calf

MoK, I shudder to think how many shoes you have owned!

I think I'll take the above list as a starting point into my research and education into fine shoes.

I have bought calf Loake 1880 which arrive Thursday. So despite my modest budget, it's good to see they rank well in the budget arena.

Roger Kearey · Apr 6, 2010

I would say that the quality of C&J Bench is far better than that of Church's. I heard a rumour on Saturday from the cool salesman in C&J, Burlington arcade that Church's are going to introduce shirts & suits! ha ha they're a joke now.

EG's of course pwn them both as would Lobb's and G&G's but I don't own either of those two so can't fairly comment. In my limited knowledge though I would say that these three are the podium sitters.

the_sartorialist · Apr 6, 2010

Just canvassing opinions here - but would it be worth getting seconds from say, a maker sitting in the mid tier of the hierarchy, than to say, getting a perfectly fine pair from the lower tier of the hierarchy?

makewayhomer · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by the_sartorialist

Just canvassing opinions here - but would it be worth getting seconds from say, a maker sitting in the mid tier of the hierarchy, than to say, getting a perfectly fine pair from the lower tier of the hierarchy?

all depends on what makes it a 2nd. if it is a small cosmetic flaw, well, that's something that will probably happen to you in short order anyways. I'm all for taking a big discount due to that. I've seen other ones which are LOLbad, for instance speed hooks on the right shoe and eyelets on the left.

TheDarkKnight · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

all depends on what makes it a 2nd. if it is a small cosmetic flaw, well, that's something that will probably happen to you in short order anyways. I'm all for taking a big discount due to that. I've seen other ones which are LOLbad, for instance speed hooks on the right shoe and eyelets on the left.

Yes I'm looking into this myself. A local shoe shop I have sourced, sells Loake 1880 half price, for minor cosmetic flaws.

ManofKent · Apr 6, 2010

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

MoK, I shudder to think how many shoes you have owned!

I think I'll take the above list as a starting point into my research and education into fine shoes.

I have bought calf Loake 1880 which arrive Thursday. So despite my modest budget, it's good to see they rank well in the budget arena.

More than my wife thinks I need

Must sought out a group shot once I've got some racks assembled and polished/brushed them all.

Nothing wrong with Loake 1880's - if I drew up a list of shoes based on value for money, they'd be near the top. The leather needs a bit more conditioner than some, but with a bit of love they'll do you well. As you climb the price brackets the law of diminishing returns clicks in pretty quickly - you start paying a lot more for a relatively small jump in quality. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but it is worth considering.

Originally Posted by the_sartorialist

Just canvassing opinions here - but would it be worth getting seconds from say, a maker sitting in the mid tier of the hierarchy, than to say, getting a perfectly fine pair from the lower tier of the hierarchy?

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

all depends on what makes it a 2nd. if it is a small cosmetic flaw, well, that's something that will probably happen to you in short order anyways. I'm all for taking a big discount due to that. I've seen other ones which are LOLbad, for instance speed hooks on the right shoe and eyelets on the left.

+1 - if you're just talking a minor scratch in an inobtrusive area of the shoe, or better still a minor colour variation that will soon be covered up by a few layers of polish then it's a no-brainer.

Montrachet · Apr 6, 2010

I would put John Lobb bespoke at the top of the list. The RTW John Lobb Paris line is owned by Hermes and should therefore count as a French shoe.

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