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english shoes quality heirachy

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr Herbert, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. Mr Herbert

    Mr Herbert Senior member

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    can someone please advise me on how the following shoes relate in quality?

    cheaney, trickers, barker, churches (current not ye olde) and loake.

    are they essentially all the same in quality and just a difference in styling?

    also is there a noticable increase in quality moving to a Crockett and Jones?
     
  2. MMorley

    MMorley Well-Known Member

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    C&J Handgrade
    Trickers
    C&J Benchgrade
    Church
    Cheaney
    Loake

    In my honest opinion, of course. Slightly biased because I never had a Loake from the 1880 line. Church is a bit of a hit-or-miss, because some are definetely better than C&J Benchgrade.
     
  3. ManofKent

    ManofKent Senior member

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    C&J Handgrade
    Trickers
    C&J Benchgrade
    Church
    Cheaney
    Loake

    In my honest opinion, of course. Slightly biased because I never had a Loake from the 1880 line. Church is a bit of a hit-or-miss, because some are definetely better than C&J Benchgrade.


    Roughly - (but shoes vary, and it depends on how much weight you put on leather quality, construction, finishing, style etc.)

    Edward Green
    C&J Handgrade
    Trickers
    Grenson Rose
    Barker Hand-crafted
    Alfred Sargent Premier
    C&J Benchgrade
    Cheaney Signature
    Church
    C&J Benchgrade
    Church
    Cheaney (most)
    Barker non-hand-crafted calf
    Sanders calf
    Loake 1880
    Alfred Sargent Classic
    Sanders non-calf, Loake non-calf, Grenson Feathermaster, Barkers non-calf
     
  4. Vox Populi

    Vox Populi Senior member

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    Edward Green
    C&J Handgrade
    Trickers
    Grenson Rose
    Barker Hand-crafted
    C&J Benchgrade
    Cheaney Signature
    Church
    Cheaney (most)
    Alfred Sargent Premier
    Barker non-hand-crafted calf
    Loake 1880
    Alfred Sargent Classic
    Sanders calf
    Sanders non-calf, Loake non-calf, Grenson Feathermaster, Barkers non-calf

    I think that would be my running order.
     
  5. Mr Herbert

    Mr Herbert Senior member

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  6. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I can't believe so many people put Church's as low as they do. They are incredibly solid shoes, also Grenson Rose, Barker Hand-Crafted and Trickers over C&J Benchgrade I think is ridiculous. In my opinion C&J is way above both. I think Barker Black would probably be about comparable to C&J Benchgrade.
     
  7. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Senior member

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    Edward Green C&J Handgrade Trickers Grenson Rose Barker Hand-crafted C&J Benchgrade Alden Cheaney Signature Church Cheaney (most) Alfred Sargent Premier Barker non-hand-crafted calf Loake 1880 Alfred Sargent Classic Sanders calf Sanders non-calf, Loake non-calf, Grenson Feathermaster, Barkers non-calf I think that would be my running order.
    I know this isn't exactly the thread topic, but where would Alden go in here? does my instert look about right? edit: 2nd try
     
  8. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

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    My opinion, concerning shoes with which I have some familiarity, in terms of quality (not styling):

    Edward Green
    Lobb
    Gaziano & Girling
    C&J Handgrade
    C&J / Church's (tie)
     
  9. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    My opinion, concerning shoes with which I have some familiarity, in terms of quality (not styling):

    Edward Green
    Lobb
    Gaziano & Girling
    C&J Handgrade
    C&J / Church's (tie)


    +1
     
  10. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I know this isn't exactly the thread topic, but where would Alden go in here?

    does my instert look about right?


    Nah, I would say higher than that.
     
  11. Vox Populi

    Vox Populi Senior member

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    Don't know Alden, I'm afraid. From what I've seen I would guess that they would probably be around the Loake 1880 mark.
     
  12. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    Um... Alden isn't English. It's American.
     
  13. Macallan

    Macallan Senior member

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    More surprising than Church's being underrated, is Cleverley's Anthony range being completely ignored, which I would rank above JL, G&G and EG.

    As for the shoe-makers mentioned I would say:
    Church's Royal Collection
    C&J Handgrade
    Church's/C&J
    Trickers
    Cheaneys
    Barkers
    Loake

    I have missed out Barker Black because I have never seen a pair.
     
  14. MMorley

    MMorley Well-Known Member

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    Roughly - (but shoes vary, and it depends on how much weight you put on leather quality, construction, finishing, style etc.)

    Edward Green
    C&J Handgrade
    Trickers
    Grenson Rose
    Barker Hand-crafted
    Alfred Sargent Premier
    C&J Benchgrade
    Cheaney Signature
    Church
    C&J Benchgrade
    Church
    Cheaney (most)
    Barker non-hand-crafted calf
    Sanders calf
    Loake 1880
    Alfred Sargent Classic
    Sanders non-calf, Loake non-calf, Grenson Feathermaster, Barkers non-calf

    That looks like a pretty interesting list. I should get myself a pair of Alfred Sargent Premier and a pair of Grenson Rose.
     
  15. ManofKent

    ManofKent Senior member

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    I can't believe so many people put Church's as low as they do. They are incredibly solid shoes, also Grenson Rose, Barker Hand-Crafted and Trickers over C&J Benchgrade I think is ridiculous. In my opinion C&J is way above both. I think Barker Black would probably be about comparable to C&J Benchgrade.

    Interesting. I agree Church make very solid decent shoes, and their soles are particularly good, but I find the leather used on the uppers on the pair I own (and others I've handled) to be a bit stiff and rather 'flat'. I own a couple of pairs of C&J Benchgrade and like them, but attention to detail on finishing isn't as good as that on my Grenson Rose, Barker Hand-Crafted or Trickers.

    It's difficult - is a softer more supple leather upper like Barker use on their Hand-Crafted, better than the tougher more damage resistant leather Grenson use on their Rose collection? I'm not sure. Some people put more value on closed channeling - providing the stitches are recessed enough for me it's not that important.

    It's also difficult not to take value into consideration.

    I can only assess quality on how the leather looks and feels, what the finishing is like and where I own them (and I own at least one pair from most of the major English manufacturers up to the Edward Green price point) how well they wear, how well they take polish etc. I've not the money or knowledge to cut them up and examine the internal construction.
     
  16. ManofKent

    ManofKent Senior member

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    More surprising than Church's being underrated, is Cleverley's Anthony range being completely ignored, which I would rank above JL, G&G and EG.

    As for the shoe-makers mentioned I would say:
    Church's Royal Collection
    C&J Handgrade
    Church's/C&J
    Trickers
    Cheaneys
    Barkers
    Loake

    I have missed out Barker Black because I have never seen a pair.


    I've yet to try Cleverley or Lobb so can't really comment on those. I'd forgotten Church do a Royal Collection, and have no experience of them. I don't know how the Cheaney buy out will change their position - I think their Signature range is currently underated (as with Barker's Hand-Crafted collection).

    I suppose Trickers should be split into Corniche and Jermyn Street ranges, and for all the manufacturers it does depend whether you're looking at more country footwear or dress oxfords...
     
  17. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

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    More surprising than Church's being underrated, is Cleverley's Anthony range being completely ignored, which I would rank above JL, G&G and EG.

    I would guess that not many people have experience with them, and you can't have a very well informed opinion about them if you haven't worn them.

    I'd like to add, I think there's a significant gap in quality from [ EG and Lobb ] down to G&G. They cover their shoes with stylish aesthetic, but I think EG far better in terms of craftsmanship, and in my experience, leather.
     
  18. Champagnelifestylenomoney

    Champagnelifestylenomoney Senior member

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    I'd suggest something like...

    Edward Green/John Lobb (tie)
    Church's Royal Collection
    C&J Handgrade
    G. C. Cleverley RTW
    Grenson Masterpiece /Stuarts Choice
    Church's
    C&J
    Trickers
    New & Lingwood
    Cheaneys
    Alfred Sargent
    Grenson
    Barkers
    Loake
     
  19. sw20

    sw20 Well-Known Member

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    Dec 23, 2009
    Quality/durability may also vary by EG MTO or TD vs JL's super-duper iteration

    And at least in US seems like JL has limited super-duper iterations readily available for spec to custs in places like Manhattan or PaloAlto where convenient MTM/MTO/bespoke shopping mechanics, not price, are non-negotiable
     
  20. ManofKent

    ManofKent Senior member

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    I'd suggest something like...

    Edward Green/John Lobb (tie)
    Church's Royal Collection
    C&J Handgrade
    G. C. Cleverley RTW
    Grenson Masterpiece /Stuarts Choice
    Church's
    C&J
    Trickers
    New & Lingwood
    Cheaneys
    Alfred Sargent
    Grenson
    Barkers
    Loake


    I didn't think New & Lingwood produced shoes - aren't they re-badged from multiple sources?

    I'd put Grenson Rushden pretty low (and Grenson Feathermaster right at the bottom), but Grenson Rose I'd put much higher.
     

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