Church's Shoes 2008

cimabue · May 25, 2008

Difficult enough buying Church's in person -- crazy sizing and quality control issues -- but forget about undertaking a purchase over the phone or 'net.

Quirky shoemaker, yet all in all, I am still fond of this brand!

John Ellis · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by cimabue

Difficult enough buying Church's in person -- crazy sizing and quality control issues -- but forget about undertaking a purchase over the phone or 'net.

Quirky shoemaker, yet all in all, I am still fond of this brand!

What's difficult about it. I go into their store on Madison every so often to kick the tires although I haven't bought a pair of their shoes for several years. I usually try on a couple of pairs and I never have sizing problems because basically I know my size on the various lasts they offer. I counsel anyone buying shoes from any manufacturer to make a note of the last, length and width fitting of any shoes he tries on. Once you've hit the optimum for you personally on that last that's all you need to know. Thereafter, that's all you order. Sometimes different styles can mean slight changes but in practice I have never found that it turned out wrong. So whether it's EG, Church's or whatever check out the last, length and width and you're not going to go far wrong.

cimabue · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by John Ellis

What's difficult about it. I go into their store on Madison every so often to kick the tires although I haven't bought a pair of their shoes for several years. I usually try on a couple of pairs and I never have sizing problems because basically I know my size on the various lasts they offer. I counsel anyone buying shoes from any manufacturer to make a note of the last, length and width fitting of any shoes he tries on. Once you've hit the optimum for you personally on that last that's all you need to know. Thereafter, that's all you order. Sometimes different styles can mean slight changes but in practice I have never found that it turned out wrong. So whether it's EG, Church's or whatever check out the last, length and width and you're not going to go far wrong.

Undoubtedly good advice, John, but in my case I have Church's Legate, Westbury and Consul shoe, sizes 9, 9.5 and 10 UK, respectively -- all from the same last. I normally wear a 10.5 US. I have a Grenson Chukka in 9 UK that feel like they're a half size too big. 'Love English shoes but what a pain getting 'em sized right.

cimabue · May 25, 2008

duplicate

John Ellis · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by cimabue

Undoubtedly good advice, John, but in my case I have Church's Legate, Westbury and Consul shoe, sizes 9, 9.5 and 10 UK, respectively -- all from the same last. I normally wear a 10.5 US. I have a Grenson Chukka in 9 UK that feel like they're a half size too big. 'Love English shoes but what a pain getting 'em sized right.

I'm not understanding are you saying you have 9, 9.5 and 10 size shoes and they all fit you? I'm an 11 C (US) and most of my shoes are on their 73 last and I have balmoral, legate, consul, diplomat, champagne, cognac and, I think, buck styles on this last. I also have a shoe called Cromwell also 11C but can't remember the last number but it's slightly different. They are all are the same size and fit me perfectly. I've been buying them for 40 years. Now since they were acquired by the Handbag people they have put some of these trad styles on slightly different more square toed last which looks pretty good I think. I've tried numerous pairs on this new last all 11C and bingo they all fit perfectly so I feel fairly confident about about what I'm saying. And believe me when it comes to shoes I pick pepper out of fly poop.

John Ellis · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by cimabue

duplicate

I'm bound to say I don't follow any of this. It's not uncommon for shoe salesmen to give you wider fittings if they don't have your size in stock. For example a 10.5 D or E is probably going to accomodate your foot reasonably comfortably even if you are a size 11C as I am. The problem is it doesn't look as good and after you've been wearing them for a while they'll gape around the upper and start to bang your big toe. As I say you need to know exactly what your length and width fitting is on any particular last and don't settle for anything else. There's also this curious paradox that if you go into a Church's shoe store in Britain they ONLY stock E fittings whereas in the US they have everything from B to F in my experience. When I lived in the UK a long time ago they used to have to order my fitting in. Here in the US you can pick it up off the shelf generally speaking.

cimabue · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by John Ellis

I'm not understanding are you saying you have 9, 9.5 and 10 size shoes and they all fit you?

Yup, same last, same width. Granted, bought my shoes at about five-year intervals, but more recently, with the Westburys, tried two pairs both in size 9.5 (one in bookbinder and the other in calf) and one pair fit and the other was too tight!

Pepper from fly poop? 'Have to remember that one!

cimabue · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by John Ellis

There's also this curious paradox that if you go into a Church's shoe store in Britain they ONLY stock E fittings whereas in the US they have everything from B to F in my experience. When I lived in the UK a long time ago they used to have to order my fitting in. Here in the US you can pick it up off the shelf generally speaking.

Hmm, I did buy the Legates in the UK. The other two pairs here in the US.

John Ellis · May 25, 2008

Originally Posted by cimabue

Yup, same last, same width. Granted, bought my shoes at about five-year intervals, but more recently, with the Westburys, tried two pairs both in size 9.5 (one in bookbinder and the other in calf) and one pair fit and the other was too tight!

Pepper from fly poop? 'Have to remember that one!

Are you sure the width fittings were the same. I'm going into NYC next Thursday or Friday and will be in midtown. I'll go into the Church's store and torture them. I can't remember what the Westbury is, is it the monkstrap? I can only say none of this as ever happened to me although the last time I actually bought a pair of their shoes over here was about five years ago when their store further down Madison( now occupied by Florsheim) was closing up. I actually bought three pairs one of which is still in the box! Since then I've been in the store at about 64th street on Madison several times, tried on my favorites on the new last and they are fine.

Harry Lean · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by John Ellis

I can't remember what the Westbury is, is it the monkstrap?

Yes. used to be on 73 last.

mrmax · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by Harry Lean

Yes. used to be on 73 last.

From what I've seen, the Westbury's have been on the 100 last, and are now being transitioned to their new 173 last. Is my information inaccurate?

Josef Seibel · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by John Ellis

I'm bound to say I don't follow any of this. It's not uncommon for shoe salesmen to give you wider fittings if they don't have your size in stock. For example a 10.5 D or E is probably going to accomodate your foot reasonably comfortably even if you are a size 11C as I am. The problem is it doesn't look as good and after you've been wearing them for a while they'll gape around the upper and start to bang your big toe. As I say you need to know exactly what your length and width fitting is on any particular last and don't settle for anything else. There's also this curious paradox that if you go into a Church's shoe store in Britain they ONLY stock E fittings whereas in the US they have everything from B to F in my experience. When I lived in the UK a long time ago they used to have to order my fitting in. Here in the US you can pick it up off the shelf generally speaking.

same remarkes from me: i have had 2 pairs on the 73 last which i sold later due to pain and miscomfort. as far as i remember, church offers a normal f-width (comperable to the c&j e-width) and a wider g-width. true, then the handbag people came (i like that expression

), so i was definitely not in the mood to aquire another pair. in the meantime, having heard and read that the overall quality may be comperable to the pre-prada-times, and the inauguration of that new 173-last, iÂ´m really tempted to pull the trigger on the grafton next time iÂ´m in london.

Church Grafton
NEW 173 LAST shape; Church's heavy weight Brogue with a "Storm Welt" & thick leather sole (Herring Shoes supplies)

John Ellis · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by Josef Seibel

same remarkes from me: i have had 2 pairs on the 73 last which i sold later due to pain and miscomfort. as far as i remember, church offers a normal f-width (comperable to the c&j e-width) and a wider g-width. true, then the handbag people came (i like that expression

), so i was definitely not in the mood to aquire another pair. in the meantime, having heard and read that the overall quality may be comperable to the pre-prada-times, and the inauguration of that new 173-last, iÂ´m really tempted to pull the trigger on the grafton next time iÂ´m in london.

Church Grafton
NEW 173 LAST shape; Church's heavy weight Brogue with a "Storm Welt" & thick leather sole (Herring Shoes supplies)

As I said above my advice is to buy them in the US where there is a much bigger choice of width fittings. They also used to sell a few models over here that they didn't sell in Britain. I never buy any shoes unless they have the exact length and width fitting for me. It always turns out to be a mistake if I do. I'm also agreeably surprised by the BB range of Peal shoes although they seem to get mixed notices here. Over the past three years I've bought three pairs in their super sale and they are pretty good in looks and value. The last they use is fairly similar to the Church's 73 it seems to me. The brown monkstrap, one of the pairs I bought, looks very good, in fact it's pretty close in looks to a classic black EG monkstrap I bought about 12 years ago.

eliteforum · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by TCN

I've defended Church's to the hilt here, and I still think for $3-400, the old custom grades I used to buy were worth every penny. But I was just perusing one of the new mens mags (either GQ or Esky) and noticed a pair of Church's captoes listed at $800 . . . is this a typo? Is there a premium line now?

I remember post Prada when they climbed to $500+, but $800??????

For awesome cap toe from "Royals" range see ebay item 360053795115
these are very nice quality I sell many many shoes and in my view Crockett and Jones shoes now offer better value for money

cimabue · May 26, 2008

Originally Posted by Josef Seibel

Church Grafton
NEW 173 LAST shape; Church's heavy weight Brogue with a "Storm Welt" & thick leather sole (Herring Shoes supplies)

Wow, beautiful shoe, Josef!

Church's Shoes 2008

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