Old(ish) guy needing to upgrade my suits

[J.R.]

Hey all, just found this group and I've been reading a bit. I need some independent advice for upgrading my old suit wardrobe. Here is a quick bit about me. I'm a mid 40s business attorney; 5'10" / 170 lbs (a bit softer on the sides that I'm used to). I don't wear suits as often as I used to and as such, all of my suits are old, like 15-20 years old. I run pretty traditional clothing style wise. I have your traditional setup - dark navy stripe / charcoal birdseye / mid grey windowpane / grey and mid-blue window pane. Plus a newer navy blazer and a few odd sport coats. The issue is, all four suite are three button, a bit boxy, wider arms, double pleated pants and wider legs. I took them to two local tailors and each basically said to hide them in the back of the closet in case they come back in style and start over. The suits were made by Roberto Vallini, Jones N.Y., S. Cohen. All entry level stuff at around $400-500 each.

I was looking to get something better fitting and looking at made to measure or custom. The local tailors offer either Coopley, which seems to have very little discussion on here but is still lower mid/grade according to your list of brands. But, the cost is $1700-2200 for MTM depending on the fabric. Another tailor only does OTR and sells Enzo and London Fog from $400-$500. I'm going downtown Cleveland tomorrow (https://maestrobespoke.com/) to a custom shop but he said on the phone I likely won't need custom for my size.

So, what to do? Is MTM really $1700-2000 and if so is it really worth it? I was expecting that price for a full custom. All MTM are basically machine made in China anyway isn't it? Are these online MT2 shops any good? I see several that are half the price I was quoted

I think I'll start with a navy suit, although I'd prefer a bit of style to it in either texture or a light pattern. Reading a few blogs one recommends a navy hopsack suit and a grey flannel. Never see hopsack at any of the places I go, but there is a lot of birdseye, and the two tailers I spoke to said they sell maybe one flannel a year (thus saying they are not in style). In all, eventually, I'm planning a navy suit, a lighter or French blue suit (maybe three piece), mid-grey, and one a bit more patterned and casual. Plus, the Coopley guy has a blazer that was unconstructed in a knit wool that was very comfortable in either a mid blue (between French and sky) or a mid-grey.

Appreciate any tips on brands, shopping methods or general style.

 

[reidrothchild]

You are of average height and fairly thin. You don't seem like you'd be tough to fit, so I'm not sure why you'd want to go with MTM. For more budget-friendly options, Spier & Mackay and Suit Supply will provide you with an updated silhouette (softer shoulders, slimmer fitting) at a good value.

For your budget, you could try suiting from No Man Walks Alone, Drake's, or The Armoury, which would offer nicer suits in the $1500-2200 range. If I were you, I'd rule out off-the-rack options before doing MTM. Lots of MTM horror stories on this forum. OTR will likely get you better quality and is returnable if you don't like the fit. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to order stuff off the internet and then return, but it's a huge pain to order MTM, wait 4-8 weeks for it to show up, wait more time for alterations to be done, and then find out you don't really like the end result.

 

[rjc149]

You’re not old.

That’s my only input.

 

[J.R.]

You’re not old.

That’s my only input.

LOL, thanks.

 

[J.R.]

You are of average height and fairly thin. You don't seem like you'd be tough to fit, so I'm not sure why you'd want to go with MTM. For more budget-friendly options, Spier & Mackay and Suit Supply will provide you with an updated silhouette (softer shoulders, slimmer fitting) at a good value.

For your budget, you could try suiting from No Man Walks Alone, Drake's, or The Armoury, which would offer nicer suits in the $1500-2200 range. If I were you, I'd rule out off-the-rack options before doing MTM. Lots of MTM horror stories on this forum. OTR will likely get you better quality and is returnable if you don't like the fit. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to order stuff off the internet and then return, but it's a huge pain to order MTM, wait 4-8 weeks for it to show up, wait more time for alterations to be done, and then find out you don't really like the end result.

Thanks. I guess if I were to go OTR I'd want to fine something and somewhere that can make it fit a bit better. For example, a couple of jackets I get from Jos A Bank I never wear as the fit is uncomfortable.

 

[bicycleradical]

Nordstrom sells some decent suits and will probably have a location relatively close to you. At the store, you can try on a bunch of different suits from various makers and get an idea of the silhouette and style you want without committing to buying.

Looking at your figures, you are taller and leaner than I am. You'll be fine in OTR with some alterations.

 

[Viral]

forum faves Cavour and Spier & Mackay are great options with a friendly and active online presence to help guide you.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

So, what to do? Is MTM really $1700-2000 and if so is it really worth it? I was expecting that price for a full custom. All MTM are basically machine made in China anyway isn't it? Are these online MT2 shops any good? I see several that are half the price I was quoted

there are any number of made to measure options, some being what you describe. I really would even call that made to measure.

I’m not really sure where you live, but you mentioned going to Cleveland so I would assume somewhere close by. Cleveland is a big enough town where there should be a few decent mens stores around. They should offer made to measure where they will actually measure you and you’ll be able to select among different fabrics and finishes.

The made to measure you speak of is more the online variety. Search here for threads regarding this band you’ll find SF littered with posts asking us to “critique my new made to measure suit.” These abominations are often beyond salvage.

You’re a grown up and a professional. Leave online made to measure to 20-something hipsters for whom a suit should fit like a sausage casing. Just my opinion.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Hey all, just found this group and I've been reading a bit. I need some independent advice for upgrading my old suit wardrobe. Here is a quick bit about me. I'm a mid 40s business attorney; 5'10" / 170 lbs (a bit softer on the sides that I'm used to). I don't wear suits as often as I used to and as such, all of my suits are old, like 15-20 years old. I run pretty traditional clothing style wise. I have your traditional setup - dark navy stripe / charcoal birdseye / mid grey windowpane / grey and mid-blue window pane. Plus a newer navy blazer and a few odd sport coats. The issue is, all four suite are three button, a bit boxy, wider arms, double pleated pants and wider legs. I took them to two local tailors and each basically said to hide them in the back of the closet in case they come back in style and start over. The suits were made by Roberto Vallini, Jones N.Y., S. Cohen. All entry level stuff at around $400-500 each.

I was looking to get something better fitting and looking at made to measure or custom. The local tailors offer either Coopley, which seems to have very little discussion on here but is still lower mid/grade according to your list of brands. But, the cost is $1700-2200 for MTM depending on the fabric. Another tailor only does OTR and sells Enzo and London Fog from $400-$500. I'm going downtown Cleveland tomorrow (https://maestrobespoke.com/) to a custom shop but he said on the phone I likely won't need custom for my size.

So, what to do? Is MTM really $1700-2000 and if so is it really worth it? I was expecting that price for a full custom. All MTM are basically machine made in China anyway isn't it? Are these online MT2 shops any good? I see several that are half the price I was quoted

I think I'll start with a navy suit, although I'd prefer a bit of style to it in either texture or a light pattern. Reading a few blogs one recommends a navy hopsack suit and a grey flannel. Never see hopsack at any of the places I go, but there is a lot of birdseye, and the two tailers I spoke to said they sell maybe one flannel a year (thus saying they are not in style). In all, eventually, I'm planning a navy suit, a lighter or French blue suit (maybe three piece), mid-grey, and one a bit more patterned and casual. Plus, the Coopley guy has a blazer that was unconstructed in a knit wool that was very comfortable in either a mid blue (between French and sky) or a mid-grey.

Appreciate any tips on brands, shopping methods or general style.

Welcome to SF. One thing that might be handy is to know a bit about what look or details you like. It might help steer you toward some better options beyond a shot in the dark.

As was mentioned there are some forum favorites with regard to off the rack brands ranging from Spier & Mackay at the more entry price point (5-600) with Cavour being somewhere in the middle (600-1200) and Ring Jacket for the Armoury being a touch higher with most of their offerings being between 1500-2000. They're all forum affiliates and you can find their threads at the links. I'd echo the recommendation for them.

Spier has some variety in the cuts they offer between their Neapolitan cut and their English cut as well as their middle of the road stuff. Cavour tends toward the Neapolitan flavor but added some stuff with a little more structure. The Armoury will probably have the most diverse set of options but will be the most expensive of the options listed.

The thing that is nice about these makers is that their makes have a little character to them. Nothing that should date them but a little flavor compared to a more basic cut that resembles a suit and pulls from various traditions and styles but often doesn't resemble anything beyond an amalgamation of the worst parts of each. That being said, it does require just a little more thought and consideration with regard to what details you like since a Neapolitan suit will be very different from a structured English cut as an example.

As for Made to Measure - There's a thread on that you can find here. As has been alluded to by some of the other guys there is a big range of what constitutes MTM and the quality you can achieve from the machine made stuff to handmade in South East Asia stuff to the Neapolitan stuff that borders on bespoke or Savile Row tailors who offer MTM. I think @heldentenor has a guy he uses who I think might be a touch under the price point you were looking at. Some of the guys on here use Steed's MTM which should come in around $2,000 based off the last price sheet I saw.

Happy hunting!

 

[comrade]

If you like Trad( Ivy) style clothing you about 3 hours from OConnell's
in Buffalo. Thay a vast selection also so MTM:

Suits - Men's Clothing, Traditional Natural shouldered clothing, preppy apparel

O’Connell's, established in 1959, is a family owned and operated traditional clothier offering mens, womens, and young mens clothing.

oconnellsclothing.com

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Hey all, just found this group and I've been reading a bit. I need some independent advice for upgrading my old suit wardrobe. Here is a quick bit about me. I'm a mid 40s business attorney; 5'10" / 170 lbs (a bit softer on the sides that I'm used to). I don't wear suits as often as I used to and as such, all of my suits are old, like 15-20 years old. I run pretty traditional clothing style wise. I have your traditional setup - dark navy stripe / charcoal birdseye / mid grey windowpane / grey and mid-blue window pane. Plus a newer navy blazer and a few odd sport coats. The issue is, all four suite are three button, a bit boxy, wider arms, double pleated pants and wider legs. I took them to two local tailors and each basically said to hide them in the back of the closet in case they come back in style and start over. The suits were made by Roberto Vallini, Jones N.Y., S. Cohen. All entry level stuff at around $400-500 each.

I was looking to get something better fitting and looking at made to measure or custom. The local tailors offer either Coopley, which seems to have very little discussion on here but is still lower mid/grade according to your list of brands. But, the cost is $1700-2200 for MTM depending on the fabric. Another tailor only does OTR and sells Enzo and London Fog from $400-$500. I'm going downtown Cleveland tomorrow (https://maestrobespoke.com/) to a custom shop but he said on the phone I likely won't need custom for my size.

So, what to do? Is MTM really $1700-2000 and if so is it really worth it? I was expecting that price for a full custom. All MTM are basically machine made in China anyway isn't it? Are these online MT2 shops any good? I see several that are half the price I was quoted

I think I'll start with a navy suit, although I'd prefer a bit of style to it in either texture or a light pattern. Reading a few blogs one recommends a navy hopsack suit and a grey flannel. Never see hopsack at any of the places I go, but there is a lot of birdseye, and the two tailers I spoke to said they sell maybe one flannel a year (thus saying they are not in style). In all, eventually, I'm planning a navy suit, a lighter or French blue suit (maybe three piece), mid-grey, and one a bit more patterned and casual. Plus, the Coopley guy has a blazer that was unconstructed in a knit wool that was very comfortable in either a mid blue (between French and sky) or a mid-grey.

Appreciate any tips on brands, shopping methods or general style.

Everyone's kind of coming at you full speed with the nitty gritty of stuff they like, which might be a bit of information overload. Correct me if I am wrong, but it kind of sounds like you wear suits partly because of a (fading) dress code, and might not be a nerdy enthusiasts like some folks here, folks who are willing to go to great lengths in terms of buying from obscure online vendors, worrying about tiny details like fabric texture and exact shade of navy blue, going through difficult returns/exchanges, that sort of thing. If you want to fall down that rabbit hole then great, but here are a few ideas I have to get you started with minimal hassle and without losing the forest in the trees.

1. At 5'10 170 you sound like a fairly standard build, so unless you have some strange proportions, you don't need to go custom. The garments that you have which you say are uncomfortable are probably that way because the template they were built around happens to not work for you. In the case of entry level stuff like Jos A Bank, Men's Wearhouse, etc, they always seem to be designing with a fat sloppy guy in mind, and the shoulders might feel weird/constricting on a healthier person. Higher-end makers will have more thoughtful templates that will feel good in the shoulders, arms, and chest, but without being too big/boxy.
2. Coppley seems more popular amongst the Canadians here but they're good stuff. $1700-2200 seems a bit high for MTM though unless the fabric is in a more premium tier. AFAIK Coppley is comparable to Samuelsohn and Hickey Freeman, and those typically MTM starting around $1200 or so.
3. I would discourage the hopsack suit. It's a textured material that will look and feel a bit different from what you are used to, and while you coworkers in the room probably wouldn't notice it, you'll know you're different. Hopsack is usually used for blazers; typically when it see it as a blue suit, it's because the owner wanted the jacket to pull double duty as both a suit jacket and a blazer separate. It's not a great material for pants because the texture tends to snag on things, and that means pants that will wear out relatively quickly.
4. Similarly with the gray flannel suit, a flannel suit certainly feels great to wear in fall and winter, but is quite seasonal in that regard, whereas if you're rebooting your wardrobe, a medium gray in worsted (regular) suit fabric is probably more versatile. If you want to mix it up a bit, get something with a hint of texture, like sharkskin or birdseye or something, and you'll be able to wear the pants with the blue blazer as well.
5. I'd say the easiest way to get started is to head to the store and start with the ready to wear stuff. They should have a lot of blue and grays for you to try. Have the tailor pin it up to see what it'll look like in its final state, not the boxy starting state. The beauty of this is that if it doesn't fit, or if you don't like how it looks, you can put it back. With online you need to deal with the back and forth of returns, and MTM is more or less final sale, and is risky for someone revamping a wardrobe.
6. I'd probably start with buying just one item, the navy or mid gray blue suit. Wear it out and about and see how it feels. If it feels good, then go back to the same guy (and the same tailor) to get more in the same template. If it's no good, then you're only out one suit, and you can try someone else later. I looked at his social media and this Maestro Bespoke guy in particular seems rather fond of really loud fabrics and styles. Good for a 10th suit and/or if you are a celebrity whose branding depends on being seen, but for you I'd stick to the straight and narrow.

Hope this makes sense! I've tried to keep things broad but am more than happy to go into gory detail too if you'd like.

 

[J.R.]

Everyone's kind of coming at you full speed with the nitty gritty of stuff they like, which might be a bit of information overload. Correct me if I am wrong, but it kind of sounds like you wear suits partly because of a (fading) dress code, and might not be a nerdy enthusiasts like some folks here, folks who are willing to go to great lengths in terms of buying from obscure online vendors, worrying about tiny details like fabric texture and exact shade of navy blue, going through difficult returns/exchanges, that sort of thing. If you want to fall down that rabbit hole then great, but here are a few ideas I have to get you started with minimal hassle and without losing the forest in the trees.

1. At 5'10 170 you sound like a fairly standard build, so unless you have some strange proportions, you don't need to go custom. The garments that you have which you say are uncomfortable are probably that way because the template they were built around happens to not work for you. In the case of entry level stuff like Jos A Bank, Men's Wearhouse, etc, they always seem to be designing with a fat sloppy guy in mind, and the shoulders might feel weird/constricting on a healthier person. Higher-end makers will have more thoughtful templates that will feel good in the shoulders, arms, and chest, but without being too big/boxy.
2. Coppley seems more popular amongst the Canadians here but they're good stuff. $1700-2200 seems a bit high for MTM though unless the fabric is in a more premium tier. AFAIK Coppley is comparable to Samuelsohn and Hickey Freeman, and those typically MTM starting around $1200 or so.
3. I would discourage the hopsack suit. It's a textured material that will look and feel a bit different from what you are used to, and while you coworkers in the room probably wouldn't notice it, you'll know you're different. Hopsack is usually used for blazers; typically when it see it as a blue suit, it's because the owner wanted the jacket to pull double duty as both a suit jacket and a blazer separate. It's not a great material for pants because the texture tends to snag on things, and that means pants that will wear out relatively quickly.
4. Similarly with the gray flannel suit, a flannel suit certainly feels great to wear in fall and winter, but is quite seasonal in that regard, whereas if you're rebooting your wardrobe, a medium gray in worsted (regular) suit fabric is probably more versatile. If you want to mix it up a bit, get something with a hint of texture, like sharkskin or birdseye or something, and you'll be able to wear the pants with the blue blazer as well.
5. I'd say the easiest way to get started is to head to the store and start with the ready to wear stuff. They should have a lot of blue and grays for you to try. Have the tailor pin it up to see what it'll look like in its final state, not the boxy starting state. The beauty of this is that if it doesn't fit, or if you don't like how it looks, you can put it back. With online you need to deal with the back and forth of returns, and MTM is more or less final sale, and is risky for someone revamping a wardrobe.
6. I'd probably start with buying just one item, the navy or mid gray blue suit. Wear it out and about and see how it feels. If it feels good, then go back to the same guy (and the same tailor) to get more in the same template. If it's no good, then you're only out one suit, and you can try someone else later. I looked at his social media and this Maestro Bespoke guy in particular seems rather fond of really loud fabrics and styles. Good for a 10th suit and/or if you are a celebrity whose branding depends on being seen, but for you I'd stick to the straight and narrow.

Hope this makes sense! I've tried to keep things broad but am more than happy to go into gory detail too if you'd like.

Thanks guys. @stuffedsuperdud I think you hit the nail on the head for me.

The place I went to is a local old shop that has been in town a long time with an in house tailor - though reading a bit I was measured by the owner, not the tailor. They have off the rack stuff, just not much in my size. The MTM idea came from me but mostly because I want a well fitted suit, not because I want some unique details necessarily. The fabric swatches that I have range all over. The one I like is a darker navy windowpane from Reda that says its super 150s worsted wool 8oz. Another similar but lighter navy is a windowpane on a check 100% wool 9.5oz but it does not say where it's from or if its 100-150 etc. They have a trunk show for Coopley this weekend so Coopley stuff is 10% off this week. They said they are one of the older U.S. retailers of Coopley but they also sell Samuelsohn.

One issue is one tailor says I should wear a 40R and the other says a 42R, the difference being in the shoulder width. I'm not sure. I've always worn a 40R. My old suits were are very boxy like I said but also very broad shoulders with thick shoulder pads. I want the exact opposite of that. Reading a bit about English, American, and Italian styles, I think I want to try at least one Italian style with softer shoulders, reduced (but not no) structure more refined look - maybe a bit trying to look younger vs the stiff old style suits. I will mainly wear the suit to the downtown business club to network and try to gain some business from other professionals so I want it to look expensive and custom, but I want to pay as low as possible to look that way. But ... I have to stick to pretty basic business style fabrics, Navy, Grey, mid-Blue; texture is okay and pattern is okay. I want to not look like everyone else who just bought a suit at Nordstroms or JosABanks, but I don't want to look loud either. If any of that makes sense.

I don't know that I would spend for custom just to get special linings or surgeon's cuffs, but If I get MTM for fit purposes I would likely get surgeon's cuffs and maybe a subtle lining.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Thanks guys. @stuffedsuperdud I think you hit the nail on the head for me.

The place I went to is a local old shop that has been in town a long time with an in house tailor - though reading a bit I was measured by the owner, not the tailor. They have off the rack stuff, just not much in my size. The MTM idea came from me but mostly because I want a well fitted suit, not because I want some unique details necessarily. The fabric swatches that I have range all over. The one I like is a darker navy windowpane from Reda that says its super 150s worsted wool 8oz. Another similar but lighter navy is a windowpane on a check 100% wool 9.5oz but it does not say where it's from or if its 100-150 etc. They have a trunk show for Coopley this weekend so Coopley stuff is 10% off this week. They said they are one of the older U.S. retailers of Coopley but they also sell Samuelsohn.

One issue is one tailor says I should wear a 40R and the other says a 42R, the difference being in the shoulder width. I'm not sure. I've always worn a 40R. My old suits were are very boxy like I said but also very broad shoulders with thick shoulder pads. I want the exact opposite of that. Reading a bit about English, American, and Italian styles, I think I want to try at least one Italian style with softer shoulders, reduced (but not no) structure more refined look - maybe a bit trying to look younger vs the stiff old style suits. I will mainly wear the suit to the downtown business club to network and try to gain some business from other professionals so I want it to look expensive and custom, but I want to pay as low as possible to look that way. But ... I have to stick to pretty basic business style fabrics, Navy, Grey, mid-Blue; texture is okay and pattern is okay. I want to not look like everyone else who just bought a suit at Nordstroms or JosABanks, but I don't want to look loud either. If any of that makes sense.

I don't know that I would spend for custom just to get special linings or surgeon's cuffs, but If I get MTM for fit purposes I would likely get surgeon's cuffs and maybe a subtle lining.

Based on this feedback I have a few thoughts.

Super numbers and cloth weights. I wouldn’t get hung up on high super numbers. Given you’re talking about a handful of suits - things with higher super numbers generally speaking will be lighter and less durable. An 8oz wool in Cleveland will likely be a spring/summer suit.

details to look nice - I think you’re sort of on the right track here but I’d say avoid the traditional “tells” that it’s custom. Things like contrast button holes.

Given your height and weight my guess is you should be able to go off the rack and get something tailored.

You could try this in a 50 and a 52 and return the one that doesn’t fit.

Wool Covert Model 3A Suit | The Armoury

The Armoury was born from our passion for classic styling and interest in the unique stories behind well-crafted men’s products.

thearmoury.com

You could try the same sizes in this. Even though they’re in Europe I think Cavour offers free returns. https://cavour.co/en/product/5898/s110-birdseye-suit

Spier Mackay doesn’t have much for traditional colors in their Neapolitan cut at the moment.

 

[othertravel]

If you're a business attorney, then consider Tom Ford, or Ralph Lauren Purple Label. Time to make partner...

 

[J.R.]

LOL. (a) I'm already a partner, (b) I would not wear either of those suits. Not a fan of the black with the caulk pinstripe.

Went looking around locally. The local town shop had a Coopley suit off the rack for $1100 - grey with a light check and a light blue windowpane that I like and might buy. Seems expensive for off the rack but it seemed like a nice suit. It's a 42 which feels big on me but he assured that 42 is correct in the chest and shoulders and they can bring it in on the side, reduce the sleeve, drop the collar, etc., The pants would need to be narrowed in the leg and the rise reduced.

Went to Maestro in Cleveland, he has a handful of off the rack that was custom made to his desires. Mostly traditional styles with a bit of flare like pick stitching. Most of his stuff was custom that he makes himself. Some of the items I really liked but he talked me out of it saying I need to start with the basics of a navy or grey first and that I don't need custom for that. He was not pushing 40 vs 42 but seemed to like the 40. They had a mid-navy birdseye in a Zegna cloth with pick stitching that I liked fine for $900. The same suit from the Coopley guy MTM was $1700, but I could add some details. The same suit again from another shop but it's made by London Fog was $400.