schmata: from rags to riches to rags

Originally Posted by Mauro

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thank you. I will continue to do my best and support small business.
small businesses rule, you rule, go everyone hugs edit: hug-snipe

Originally Posted by Mauro

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I also think that many people in college shouldn't be there and should be learning a trade. I think learning a trade is a very good thing and paying a fair wage is just the right thing to do.

This is most likely true but in America there isn't a good apprentice system set up to teach skilled trades. I lived in Germany for a few years and my German girlfriend's father is a shoemaker so I'm familiar with their system. It requires 3 years training/apprenticeship and passing exams before you are allowed to work in the trade. 7 years of experience is required to open your own shop. While this may inhibit those with lots of natural talent, you are almost guaranteed to receive a quality product or service. Your bread will taste good, your clothes will be repaired properly, and your house will be well constructed. You never have to worry that the person doing the work is untrained and was standing in a parking lot looking for day-labor a few hours earlier.

In America, most people are presented with a choice of going to college or becoming an unskilled laborer. Since the latter sounds so unappealing, people opt to go to college. A system of training skilled laborers would increase the prestige associated with many occupations and benefit consumers greatly.

Originally Posted by DrPat

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This is most likely true but in America there isn't a good apprentice system set up to teach skilled trades. I lived in Germany for a few years and my German girlfriend's father is a shoemaker so I'm familiar with their system. It requires 3 years training/apprenticeship and passing exams before you are allowed to work in the trade. 7 years of experience is required to open your own shop. While this may inhibit those with lots of natural talent, you are almost guaranteed to receive a quality product or service. Your bread will taste good, your clothes will be repaired properly, and your house will be well constructed. You never have to worry that the person doing the work is untrained and was standing in a parking lot looking for day-labor a few hours earlier.

In America, most people are presented with a choice of going to college or becoming an unskilled laborer. Since the latter sounds so unappealing, people opt to go to college. A system of training skilled laborers would increase the prestige associated with many occupations and benefit consumers greatly.

Very well put, DrPat. Another thing is that in America professional careers are becoming less professionally satisfying as they become less autonomous. Here's a link to a link of a good article about working with one's hands:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index...2&fromsearch=1



From William Carlos Williams' "To Elsie":

"[...] and young slatterns, bathed
in filth
from Monday to Saturday

to be tricked out that night
with gauds
from imaginations which have no

peasant traditions to give them
character
but flutter and flaunt

sheer rags-succumbing without
emotion
save numbed terror[...]"


http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15538

I saw the program Sunday. It started from the tragic lost of lives when several garment, sowers- the majority was women, jumped to their death to avoid a fire in the building (circa 1930) because of the poor building conditions. Then that was preceded by the organization of the garment district unions ; how the business was operated and who were the "schmatas"; the political clout they held (Kennedy); the deregulation of the businesses (Reagan); the outsourcing of fashion- (which led to the glamour advertising by the top designers); and then tragically ending with a recent disaster in India where, again, several women, working in the garment district, were killed because of a fire due to inadequate working conditions. It was a very moving insight on what the industry is all about. If you really want to know what fashion is, what garments are, and how "POWERFUL" this business is (that practically kept America on it's feet), then check it out! - it's AWESOME!!!.

This is why I try to support and applaud "ALL" of the affiliates on Styleforum and the "made in the USA" establishments.

^+1

there needs to be a system re-haul and I am afraid that just won't happen. Learning a trade is such a good thing.
Best,
Mauro

Doc sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out.

And +1 for a stronger system of trade schools/apprenticeships in the US. Unfortunately I don't have faith that the American consumer is going to wake up and realize the multiple dimensions of damage done by the "more/cheaper/faster" mindset.

Warning! This is a bit of a tangential diatribe.

I think there are a few factors that nobody has touched upon. It's not merely that Chinese Labor is naturally cheap, but that they keep their currency value depressed. Also the Chinese manufacturer does not have to worry about unions or any sort of work place safety or profit share arrangements. So one could argue that it's the US government and corporate interests that are to blame for allowing this imbalance to continue. But when you really think about it all this makes sense. When we say that US labor is too expensive, what we are really saying is that the margins are high enough. The reason we care about margins is because they provide for growth, but also because they directly affect senior level compensation. I.e. when the company does well it's CEO reaps most of the benefits and if the company does less stellar the CEO still has say adn will likely start by firing the cheapest and lowest laborer. There is no logical reason why we accept this reality outside of the fact that it has been forcefed to everyone. The owners continue to operate on the quest for margins and squeeze out all of those below in order to push profits. So hypothetically if we were to eliminate at least some of the inequity between those that own the means of production and those that work and had more realistic expectations about growth and the pursuit of wealth, there would be no reason why we wouldn't manufacture in the US. The problem is that everyone wants to be rich and while economists might want to convince people that life isn't a zero sum game, it mostly is. As a side note, I wasn't around in the 30s/40s and 50s, but I think the current business motto pretty much sums it up. If you have gone to business school and or know anyone in business school, you will know that virtually nobody and I mean nobody starts a business these days with the expectation of lifetime ownership. Only a fool would say I want to start a business to own it. Rather the common belief is that in the ideal scenario, one starts a business, shows strong growth and then sells it off.

^^^ I agree except for the last part. I am starting a business to own it. Hopefully one day I will be fully vertical and build me a nice business that my daughter can run and then maybe hers kids.

It's the get rich **** that ***** everything up.

America is truly unique in the amount that CEOs make. Compare an American CEO to a Japanese CEO. It's truly ridiculous how greedy American CEOs are.

American CEO's aren't greedy, if you don't like it, buy their stock, get on their board of directors, and oust their CEO... Or run another company like them, same industry, and be more competitive... no one is saying you can't... can we stop this from becoming a CESSPOOL Thread?

When China has a rising middle class and a higher standard of living, as well as a rising currency evaluation, they will no longer be cheap labor...

If there is no growing market for the goods (high priced american made items), then the industry cannot grow.

Originally Posted by constant struggle

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American CEO's aren't greedy

hahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Originally Posted by Mauro

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^^^ I agree except for the last part. I am starting a business to own it. Hopefully one day I will be fully vertical and build me a nice business that my daughter can run and then maybe hers kids.

It's the get rich **** that ***** everything up.

You are absolutely correct.....

Originally Posted by Uncontrol

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America is truly unique in the amount that CEOs make. Compare an American CEO to a Japanese CEO. It's truly ridiculous how greedy American CEOs are.

^+1....Most American CEOs has the ideology mindset that Mauro stated; and, if you look at what they "shell" out - it's pretty "crappy stuff" that they bleed until it's at least 10yrs old and it really doesn't evolve.

Originally Posted by constant struggle

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American CEO's aren't greedy, if you don't like it, buy their stock, get on their board of directors, and oust their CEO... Or run another company like them, same industry, and be more competitive... no one is saying you can't...

sure man i will just do this on my lunch break today. fix capitalism in an afternoon. owns

Well that is what is great about America, you can do those things.

How are they greedy? Who would voluntarily work a job like that without taking big pay? If they don't get paid at company X, company Y will pay them the same salary if they have the skill set.

Socialists can fck off

Originally Posted by constant struggle

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Well that is what is great about America, you can do those things.

How are they greedy? Who would voluntarily work a job like that without taking big pay? If they don't get paid at company X, company Y will pay them the same salary if they have the skill set.

Socialists can fck off

yes because there is nothing between "do job for free" and "make ridiculous sums of money by exploiting everyone who works under you"

http://jesuitjottings.blogspot.com/2...-hartmann.html