Watch

[ernest]

I was wondering what brand of watch you guys prefferd and which you own? I personaly find Cartier the best, I despise Rolex (but own one.)

I have:

2x Cartier Tank Francaise (One Chrono Refelx, One Diamond)
Cartier Pasha Jewlery Watch
Rolex Masterpiece Mens Day-Date Special Edition  Platinum case and diamonds
Bvlgari-Bvlgari S/Steel strap and case
Franck Muller Sunset Yellow Gold strap and case
Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore
And a Patek Philippe Grand Complications

Diamonds? Are you a girl? I hope for you as diamonds for men are rather ridiculious (unless to be an african dictator or arabian sheik)

Strange nobody said you it was not in use to say what you have in details on this forum as they said to me when I talk about my wardrobe...

I have 6 watches :

1) Patek white gold ellipse
2) JL steel master ultra thin
3) Cartier steel Tank
4) B&M steel Hampton
5) Boucheron steel Reflet
6) Omega pink gold vinatage watch from 50'


I like Patek, JL, Vacheron, Breguet, Piaget and other less known brands (I even do not remember correct name.)

How do you managed to buy such expensive watches? I want to take the same way.

 

[ernest]

Quote:

I must admit that my choice of the Mark XV over the Roadster was based in part on my bias against jewelry companies that make watches (Cartier, Chopard, Bvlgari, etc.)
I do not agree that Cartier is a jewerly company considering that the Santos (I think, maybe the Pasha or Tank) was one of the first watches
What is a joke? One of the first watch? Made by whom? Jeager. Cartier do not make his movement. Watches are nice but movement not "in house" and often very cheap from ETA (= 100 euros). Selling a watch of 3 000 euros with such a movement is a "robbery". What's why Cartier lose more money than Patek on second market.

 

[imageWIS]

Oh. A watch discussion. Upon reading the previous posts (all 31 of them) there are something's I would like to point out: Ah, Rolex that never-ending black/white dividing line of horology. It seems people either love it or hate it. The brand is really split into two categories: the watches themselves and the advertising / brand perception-recognition. Regarding the mechanical variations of the watches themselves (the Walt Odets article not withstanding), they are in a way the best of their field. No, not in the field of horology, but in the field of rugged sports watches. Rolex have the benefit of having very thick movements, with simple rugged pieces and simple gearing solutions which allow for not only a strong and dependable watch, (not to mention relatively accurate as far as mechanical sports watches go) but as well for easy servicing and repairing. Pair all the above with a watch that has an in-house movement (I'll go into that in a bit), something particularly important to some hobbyists, and you have a winner. Their marketing on the other hand is something altogether different and makes the watches to be something far greater than they truly are. Most Grande Complications do not take an entire year to make, and we are talking of sometimes over 500 minuscule, thin, and delicate parts, that require perfect and precise adjustment to be both manufactured into place and to run properly. This is not the case with Rolex. Thus their marketing of perfect finely built watches is more than a bit of stretch. Theses are mass-production line pieces. Rolex makes over one million watches a year. Just equate that with suits or cars. How many bespoke sartorial firms make over a million suits per year? How many exotic car manufactures make over a million cars? (And before anyone says something about the new SLR please remember that McLaren is making a lot of the car in their shops and what is not made in their shops is made by AMG, which does not make a million engines per year, plus MB will not make 1 million SLR's, ever). None of them can make a million items per year and keep their quality levels to world-class standards. And that's ok, not every company is Patek, Huntsman, or Ferrari. And they don't need to be, because not everyone can or would buy something from any of those aforementioned companies. Actually, since I mentioned Mercedes, Rolex is the watch equivalent. Both are well known, both are considered the best, and both have low discounts and high resale values. You have to give it to the Rolex marketing department they are geniuses; I wish I thought of the idea first. Who on the forum would not like to own Rolex? Conclusions? Well, Rolex is what it is. It is an instantly recognizable brand, guaranteed to bring prestige and envy wherever you go. It can take a beating, and still function. The movements have been refined over the course of over 50 years (since the modern Oyster Perpetual); they are slowly, but surely improved over time. I don't particularly like Rolex, I own two (both were gifts) and I would have never bought either one of them, but I am too much of a watch snob, so that's just me. But, honestly if you like a particular model and want to spend on money on it, than by all means, it is within your prerogative to do so. I know I won't stop you (although others might try). BTW: No Rolex (except from the Cellini line and a Day-Date on a crocodile leather strap) is a dress watch, sorry. Whew. Regarding true haute-horology, it is not always the complications (not to take anything away from complications, I love my Rattrapante, my Perpetual, and my Minute Repeating Pocket watch) that make up the watch. The most important thing is the finish of the movement. If that falls short, then the quality of that watch is not destined to be a haute-timepiece. This is why Patek (and other brands) always push the Poincion de Geneve (the Geneva Quality Seal) in every one of their mechanical watches. The level of finishing required to earn the placement of the seal (similar to COSC testing, but regarding the finishing of a movement, not its accuracy) is second to none. The standards for seal placement are rigorous, plus just as with the COSC testing, the watches must be certified by a separate agency, which then checks every movement and they place the seal onto the watch. Patek (other companies) are not allowed to place the seal on movement themselves. Of course, watches that are not made in Geneva are finished just as well (and in some cases) better than what the Seal cal for, but that is the best example to use. Diamonds on watches is a very personal thing. I personally do not like them on men's watches, but again that is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Cartier: what an interesting past. Cartier has been retailer, manufacturer, purveyor, and wholesale distributor at one time or another in their long history. Cartier at one time sold Rolex watches (i.e. same as Tiffany's with their Tiffany Rolex models), which were standard models with the "Cartier" logo printed on the dial. These go for top dollar in the auction circuit. But not only did Cartier have this agreement with Rolex, but they have had (if memory serves) "Cartier" dialed Patek's, Audemars, and JLC's (and maybe more, I can't recall), at one time. It is true that Cartier has cut back on complicated watches, but they still do release some now and then, there was a Double "C" Tourbillon Pasha less than 5 years back (movement is by GP, it's a variation of the Tourbillon with three golden bridges). They have the honor of being the first company to have the first ever major film start to wear a watch on screen; Rudolph Valentino. Granted they might not be Vacheron-level watches today, but they are hardly designer-label trash that is seen today, READ: TechnoMarine. As far as I know, almost all (if not all) of the mechanical movements are outsourced, the lower models / smaller get basically stock ETA (or the like) moments with "Cartier" somewhere on the bridges and the higher pieces, like the Pasha chronograph get top-of-the-line movements like the F. Piguet 1185 automatic Chronograph movement. IWC? Great watch (even if they use a lot of ETA movements, at least they get completely reworked by IWC, which is better than what some other companies do with outsourced movements.), they are getting too big for my small wrist, I saw a new Portuguese Perpetual yesterday and it is 44mm, way too big for me (and seriously thick, like a Panerai or AP Royal Oak Offshore), just a massive watch. Blancpain: I love, love Blancapin. Best overall watch manufactured today IMHO. The finish, the movement, the quality and design of the case / bracelet, and the price are all in line with what they offer. Resale might not be as good as PP or AP, but it is much better than Breguet, VC, etc... Regarding in-house / outsourcing movements, the real truth is that for most of the history of the Swiss watch industry, movements have been out sourced by movement manufactures. During the age of horse and buggy, it was quick complicated to assemble an entire watch "manufactory" in the mountain regions of Switzerland. The case, dials, straps, and other components (balances) were outsourced to their perspective providers. Similarly, it is that way today (although changing), because most companies purchase at least portion of dials, straps, movements and sometimes cases elsewhere. Yes, there is Patek and Rolex, whom for almost all of their history have manufactured almost every movement in-house. But, to this day Patek still uses NOS manual Lemaina chronograph movements for their watches. Granted the whole "in-house" dream that they keep on pushing sounds fantastic, but it is just a dream. Most companies are deluding the customer and maybe themselves (if they listen enough to their own BS, maybe they believe it). Some companies, like Patek, Rolex and JLC (who has made movements at one time or another for every haute-horology company in Switzerland) are at least selling the manufactory dream based on facts, which at least is something. But, other companies are really shameful, such as the ones that sell watches with GP Tourbillon movements / Lemaina Tourbillon movements and then claim to be manufactories, companies full of watch making tradition, truly and complete deception. Regardless what the trend might be, the real question is not only as to whom the watch company purchased the movement from (F. Piguet movements are better made/designed than ETA movements), but also as to what the watch company does with the movement. An automatic TAG, which uses a base ETA movement cannot compare to a Ulysse Nardin Astrolabe, which uses the same base ETA movement but has been so reworked, so modified and so well finished, that it hardly bares resemblance to the original movement. Jon. P.S. I apologize for typographical errors, GTG back to studying, no time to proof read. P.P.S imageWIS = Image Watch Idiot Savant

 

[Brian SD]

Wow, what a post.

 

[sleeper]

Well, imageWIS, you definitely lived up to your name. Great post.

Just wanted to add my opinion/boasting. I have four watches (in order of acquisition):

Tissot automatic (nameless, pedigree-less, bought for my 18th birthday)
Lange 1815 (YG, white face)
Lange One (WG, blue face)
Casio analog with a digital background.

Of these, only the Tissot is really valuable to me, because of its sentimental value. Recently, I've been wearing the Casio most freqently. Don't ask me why. The real joy of the Langes is that very few people know what they are, but those who do, are very impressed.

Having bought the Langes, I now have no lust for another high-end watch, and would probably sell them to buy suits, if I didn't have to take such a mark-down. Although if I could afford a Phillippe Dufour, I would definitely buy one of those, if he would sell one to me. Now there's a watch that would really impress the cognoscenti.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I have 6 watches : 1) Patek white gold ellipse 2) JL steel master ultra thin 3) Cartier steel Tank 4) B&M steel Hampton 5) Boucheron steel Reflet 6) Omega pink gold vinatage watch from 50'

What a coincidence . . . you own the exact same watches as dug. Â

 

[AlanC]

And the same winning personality...

 

[fareau]

And the same winning personality...

LOL

 

[DPDNYC]

On the topic of watches, my Breitling finally stopped ticking after about five years, so I went to the Tourneau world HQ on 57th Street in NYC to get the battery replaced and have some general servicing done. Much to my chagrin, I was told it had to be sent to Breitling and would take, at a minimum, four weeks to even get an estimate. Does this make sense? I hate to be without my go-to watch for that long.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

On the topic of watches, my Breitling finally stopped ticking after about five years, so I went to the Tourneau world HQ on 57th Street in NYC to get the battery replaced and have some general servicing done. Much to my chagrin, I was told it had to be sent to Breitling and would take, at a minimum, four weeks to even get an estimate. Does this make sense?  I hate to be without my go-to watch for that long.

Watch companies in general are very, very slow when it comes to service, so four weeks for an estimate on a general overhaul does not sound out of line.

 

[imageWIS]

On the topic of watches, my Breitling finally stopped ticking after about five years, so I went to the Tourneau world HQ on 57th Street in NYC to get the battery replaced and have some general servicing done. Much to my chagrin, I was told it had to be sent to Breitling and would take, at a minimum, four weeks to even get an estimate. Does this make sense? I hate to be without my go-to watch for that long.

Which Breitling Model? Because to my understanding only the Emergency needs to go back to the factory for a battery change.

Jon.

 

[DPDNYC]

Quote:

On the topic of watches, my Breitling finally stopped ticking after about five years, so I went to the Tourneau world HQ on 57th Street in NYC to get the battery replaced and have some general servicing done. Much to my chagrin, I was told it had to be sent to Breitling and would take, at a minimum, four weeks to even get an estimate. Does this make sense? Â I hate to be without my go-to watch for that long.
Which Breitling Model? Because to my understanding only the Emergency needs to go back to the factory for a battery change. Jon.
It's the Transocean.

 

[kalra2411]

Quote:

I do not agree that Cartier is a jewerly company considering that the Santos (I think, maybe the Pasha or Tank) was one of the first watches
What is a joke? One of the first watch? Made by whom? Jeager. Cartier do not make his movement. Watches are nice but movement not "in house" and often very cheap from ETA (= 100 euros). Selling a watch of 3 000 euros with such a movement is a "robbery". What's why Cartier lose more money than Patek on second market.
Why make up rubbish, for one thing "Jeager" as you call it assuming you mean Jaeger Le Coultre, did not invent the first watch, although, I believe I was a little unclear; I meant wristwatch, Cartier DID and it was the Santos, given to the Santos of some country as a gift. Moreover, for your information Mr. "Jeager" fan, the "reverso" design, which they love so much, is actually Cartiers'. They bought the patent from them (The Tank Basculette). Therefore, may I take the time to tell you: oh dear Mr. five hundred pound watch brand invented the first watch. Perhaps if you had said Vacheron Constantine, you may have had an argument as they invented their watch around the same time as Cartier.

 

[imageWIS]

Quote:

Quote I do not agree that Cartier is a jewerly company considering that the Santos (I think, maybe the Pasha or Tank) was one of the first watches
What is a joke? One of the first watch? Made by whom? Jeager. Cartier do not make his movement. Watches are nice but movement not "in house" and often very cheap from ETA (= 100 euros). Selling a watch of 3 000 euros with such a movement is a "robbery". What's why Cartier lose more money than Patek on second market.
Why make up rubbish, for one thing "Jeager" as you call it assuming you mean Jaeger Le Coultre, did not invent the first watch, although, I believe I was a little unclear; I meant wristwatch, Cartier DID and it was the Santos, given to the Santos of some country as a gift. Moreover, for your information Mr. "Jeager" fan, the "reverso" design, which they love so much, is actually Cartiers'. They bought the patent from them (The Tank Basculette). Therefore, may I take the time to tell you: oh dear Mr. five hundred pound watch brand invented the first watch. Perhaps if you had said Vacheron Constantine, you may have had an argument as they invented their watch around the same time as Cartier.[/quote] Actually, The invention of the first wristwatch is unclear. Breguet keeps on insisting that the first wristwatch was made by A.L. Breguet for the Queen of Naples. The first wristwatch is kind of a moot point. It is because of Cartier that people (men) stopped using pocket watches and moved onto daily wristwatch usage. Suffice to say that the important thing is that Cartier invented (reinvented) the modern wristwatch. Since we live in modern times, it's the modern wristwatch that is important. Jon.

 

[kalra2411]

Cartier do not make his movement. Watches are nice but movement not "in house" and often very cheap from ETA (= 100 euros).

Any comments on that people... What of the Pasha, which I own, I mean the movement does not look like it cost 100 Euros / 60 English... (perhaps that could be the mark up, but if that is the case, it surely is with all watch brands)

Thank you so much Image WIS for clearing things up, now we just must tell the misinformed Ernest about his "Jeager"

In addition Ernest, "Cartier do not make his movement." Is nonsensical English, for one thing your verb does not agree with the subject, and for another I did not know that Louis Cartier is still alive? (Sarcasm). Moreover, as I said before in a quote from the Cartier catalogue: "Cartier makes it a point of honor to create the majority of its movements" (so if you want to argue with that Ernest, you will need to take Cartier to court). Although WIS you did say so, so I would agree with you as you seem very knowledgeable about watches. Although I would not agree with the Rolex-Benz comparision. I would say that a Cartier, Audemars Piguet, and Bvlgari are like a Benz, Maserati, Jaguar or Porsche, quite well made but not outstanding, but forfill their function impeccably, and look good too. The Pateks, Rolexs and Vacherons of this world are like Audis, Sabbs and Volvos, don't look too good, but built to last with amazing standards of quality.

All the watch fanatics out there, don't get me wrong, I agree that the Pateks and Vacherons are far better, but when you compare a five hundred pound nonsense watch (Jaeger) to a Cartier, which both looks by far one of the best watches, and has a reasonable quality movement, I think you are stupid, unless of course old man is your desired image (Jaeger)