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Watch

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by kalra2411, Aug 26, 2003.

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  1. donlipa

    donlipa Member

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    Yeah that's the infamous Walt Odets explorer 1 review that was quite a scandal when it came out. All that I know is that my explorer has been 60ft underwater, dropped onto rocks from 15ft, scraped, bashed and bitten and still keeps time within 10 seconds a month and looks great. I don't think could be said of most other automatic watches. Also if anything does ever go wrong I just have to walk to the rolex building and drop it off.
     
  2. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Rolex gets a bad rap from many watch connoisseurs due to its overwhelming popularity among the general public (it makes 800,000 watches per year and sells every single one), its phony advertising (Does it really take one year to make a Rolex? I don't think so) and the fact that it makes very few watches with complications (one of the hallmarks of a top-tier brand).  Rolexes are not my cup of tea (although I do like some of the vintage models from the 1950s and 1960s), but I recognize that the one thing Rolex does -- make durable and reliable watches that are classically handsome, easy to service, and that will retain their value in the future -- it does very well.
     
  3. Kai

    Kai Senior member

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    Regarding Rolex:

    I like the Rolex Oyster Perpetual. This is a terrific looking, functional watch. In my mind, however, it is a "sports watch."

    The Rolex watches I don't like are the huge gaudy gold and/or gem incrusted watches. They have pretty much taken the classic Oyster sports watch and tried to convert it into an elegant dress watch by making it in gold and covering it with gems. I see nothing elegant about this approach, and the hulking gold and diamond Rolex Presidential watches have always struck me as somewhat tasteless.

    It's not that I have anything against beautifully adorned watches in precious metals (although they are not to my taste for anything other than black tie events.) I just don't think that the Oyster style case is the best template for this style of dress watch.

    Kai

    Kai
     
  4. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior member

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    Just bought a Vacheron Constantin 247, just wondering what the experts opinions were on this watch, as it is the first I have bought without reccomendation.
     
  5. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    No one has mentioned them yet, but I really love Movados. They may not be "high end," but they are gorgeous to me.
     
  6. Zubberah

    Zubberah Senior member

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    Favourites: Breguet, patek, IWC, Blancpain, Vacheron, Jaeger-LeCoultre, A.Lange

    Own: Patek, IWC and Vacheron, Pulsar, longines
     
  7. jbc217

    jbc217 Member

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    Hi All,

    I imagine since no one has mentioned them yet, I might already have an answer to this question, but: what are your thoughts on quality/style of Tag Heuer?  

    I have been seriously considering the Kirium F1 (numberless black face with "hidden" digital features).  I think it's a sharp if somehwhat heavy-looking sport watch.  I am (dare I say it) attracted to the hidden digital gimmick: I have some sort of biological inability to tell analog time accurately and the discreet digital option makes it perfect for me (i.e. looks like a nice analog watch but easy for me to read).

    It retails I think between 1400-1600K and it would be my first "real" watch (that is, unless Casio counts).  Have any of you had experiences with Tag or do you know anything specific about manufacturing quality, etc.?  What other watches would you recommend in that price range?
     
  8. General Koskov

    General Koskov Well-Known Member

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    James Bond prefers an Oyster Perpetual for use as a knuckleduster. So, you see, huge, chunky watches do have a place in the wardrobe of a well-dressed man.
     
  9. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    The general consensus of the folks over at Timezone, who know much more about watches than I, is that TAG Heuer is "overpriced mall junk." Â I wouldn't go that far, although I would agree that TAG is definitely overpriced for what you get. Â They don't have a factory and make very little of the watches themselves -- they're really more of a design company. Â It is a great credit to their marketing department that they have managed to place themselves with Rolex in the public's mind as a prestigious watch company. That said, I think the Kirium is a fine looking watch, and one that I was actually considering buying a few years back. Â TAG's classic line, which harkens back to Heuer's pre-TAG days, is also really nice. Â If you have your heart set on a TAG, may I suggest a vintage Heuer? Â I own this vintage Heuer Camaro, which looks great and keeps better time than any of my other mechanical watches. Â If you are looking for a sports watch in the $1400-$1600 range, I recommend an Omega Seamaster.
     
  10. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Wow, that's a bitchin' Camaro. But seriously, very nice watch. What is the quality level of the old Heuers? Comparable to anything?
     
  11. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    Diamonds? Are you a girl? I hope for you as diamonds for men are rather ridiculious (unless to be an african dictator or arabian sheik)

    Strange nobody said you it was not in use to say what you have in details on this forum as they said to me when I talk about my wardrobe...

    I have 6 watches :

    1) Patek white gold ellipse
    2) JL steel master ultra thin
    3) Cartier steel Tank
    4) B&M steel Hampton
    5) Boucheron steel Reflet
    6) Omega pink gold vinatage watch from 50'


    I like Patek, JL, Vacheron, Breguet, Piaget and other less known brands (I even do not remember correct name.)

    How do you managed to buy such expensive watches? I want to take the same way.
     
  12. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    I must admit that my choice of the Mark XV over the Roadster was based in part on my bias against jewelry companies that make watches (Cartier, Chopard, Bvlgari, etc.)
    I do not agree that Cartier is a jewerly company considering that the Santos (I think, maybe the Pasha or Tank) was one of the first watches
    What is a joke? One of the first watch? Made by whom? Jeager. Cartier do not make his movement. Watches are nice but movement not "in house" and often very cheap from ETA (= 100 euros). Selling a watch of 3 000 euros with such a movement is a "robbery". What's why Cartier lose more money than Patek on second market.
     
  13. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Oh. A watch discussion. Upon reading the previous posts (all 31 of them) there are something's I would like to point out: Ah, Rolex that never-ending black/white dividing line of horology. It seems people either love it or hate it. The brand is really split into two categories: the watches themselves and the advertising / brand perception-recognition. Regarding the mechanical variations of the watches themselves (the Walt Odets article not withstanding), they are in a way the best of their field. No, not in the field of horology, but in the field of rugged sports watches. Rolex have the benefit of having very thick movements, with simple rugged pieces and simple gearing solutions which allow for not only a strong and dependable watch, (not to mention relatively accurate as far as mechanical sports watches go) but as well for easy servicing and repairing. Pair all the above with a watch that has an in-house movement (I'll go into that in a bit), something particularly important to some hobbyists, and you have a winner. Their marketing on the other hand is something altogether different and makes the watches to be something far greater than they truly are. Most Grande Complications do not take an entire year to make, and we are talking of sometimes over 500 minuscule, thin, and delicate parts, that require perfect and precise adjustment to be both manufactured into place and to run properly. This is not the case with Rolex. Thus their marketing of perfect finely built watches is more than a bit of stretch. Theses are mass-production line pieces. Rolex makes over one million watches a year. Just equate that with suits or cars. How many bespoke sartorial firms make over a million suits per year? How many exotic car manufactures make over a million cars? (And before anyone says something about the new SLR please remember that McLaren is making a lot of the car in their shops and what is not made in their shops is made by AMG, which does not make a million engines per year, plus MB will not make 1 million SLR's, ever). None of them can make a million items per year and keep their quality levels to world-class standards. And that's ok, not every company is Patek, Huntsman, or Ferrari. And they don't need to be, because not everyone can or would buy something from any of those aforementioned companies. Actually, since I mentioned Mercedes, Rolex is the watch equivalent. Both are well known, both are considered the best, and both have low discounts and high resale values. You have to give it to the Rolex marketing department they are geniuses; I wish I thought of the idea first. Who on the forum would not like to own Rolex? Conclusions? Well, Rolex is what it is. It is an instantly recognizable brand, guaranteed to bring prestige and envy wherever you go. It can take a beating, and still function. The movements have been refined over the course of over 50 years (since the modern Oyster Perpetual); they are slowly, but surely improved over time. I don't particularly like Rolex, I own two (both were gifts) and I would have never bought either one of them, but I am too much of a watch snob, so that's just me. But, honestly if you like a particular model and want to spend on money on it, than by all means, it is within your prerogative to do so. I know I won't stop you (although others might try). BTW: No Rolex (except from the Cellini line and a Day-Date on a crocodile leather strap) is a dress watch, sorry. Whew. Regarding true haute-horology, it is not always the complications (not to take anything away from complications, I love my Rattrapante, my Perpetual, and my Minute Repeating Pocket watch) that make up the watch. The most important thing is the finish of the movement. If that falls short, then the quality of that watch is not destined to be a haute-timepiece. This is why Patek (and other brands) always push the Poincion de Geneve (the Geneva Quality Seal) in every one of their mechanical watches. The level of finishing required to earn the placement of the seal (similar to COSC testing, but regarding the finishing of a movement, not its accuracy) is second to none. The standards for seal placement are rigorous, plus just as with the COSC testing, the watches must be certified by a separate agency, which then checks every movement and they place the seal onto the watch. Patek (other companies) are not allowed to place the seal on movement themselves. Of course, watches that are not made in Geneva are finished just as well (and in some cases) better than what the Seal cal for, but that is the best example to use. Diamonds on watches is a very personal thing. I personally do not like them on men's watches, but again that is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Cartier: what an interesting past. Cartier has been retailer, manufacturer, purveyor, and wholesale distributor at one time or another in their long history. Cartier at one time sold Rolex watches (i.e. same as Tiffany's with their Tiffany Rolex models), which were standard models with the "Cartier" logo printed on the dial. These go for top dollar in the auction circuit. But not only did Cartier have this agreement with Rolex, but they have had (if memory serves) "Cartier" dialed Patek's, Audemars, and JLC's (and maybe more, I can't recall), at one time. It is true that Cartier has cut back on complicated watches, but they still do release some now and then, there was a Double "C" Tourbillon Pasha less than 5 years back (movement is by GP, it's a variation of the Tourbillon with three golden bridges). They have the honor of being the first company to have the first ever major film start to wear a watch on screen; Rudolph Valentino. Granted they might not be Vacheron-level watches today, but they are hardly designer-label trash that is seen today, READ: TechnoMarine. As far as I know, almost all (if not all) of the mechanical movements are outsourced, the lower models / smaller get basically stock ETA (or the like) moments with "Cartier" somewhere on the bridges and the higher pieces, like the Pasha chronograph get top-of-the-line movements like the F. Piguet 1185 automatic Chronograph movement. IWC? Great watch (even if they use a lot of ETA movements, at least they get completely reworked by IWC, which is better than what some other companies do with outsourced movements.), they are getting too big for my small wrist, I saw a new Portuguese Perpetual yesterday and it is 44mm, way too big for me (and seriously thick, like a Panerai or AP Royal Oak Offshore), just a massive watch. Blancpain: I love, love Blancapin. Best overall watch manufactured today IMHO. The finish, the movement, the quality and design of the case / bracelet, and the price are all in line with what they offer. Resale might not be as good as PP or AP, but it is much better than Breguet, VC, etc... Regarding in-house / outsourcing movements, the real truth is that for most of the history of the Swiss watch industry, movements have been out sourced by movement manufactures. During the age of horse and buggy, it was quick complicated to assemble an entire watch "manufactory" in the mountain regions of Switzerland. The case, dials, straps, and other components (balances) were outsourced to their perspective providers. Similarly, it is that way today (although changing), because most companies purchase at least portion of dials, straps, movements and sometimes cases elsewhere. Yes, there is Patek and Rolex, whom for almost all of their history have manufactured almost every movement in-house. But, to this day Patek still uses NOS manual Lemaina chronograph movements for their watches. Granted the whole "in-house" dream that they keep on pushing sounds fantastic, but it is just a dream. Most companies are deluding the customer and maybe themselves (if they listen enough to their own BS, maybe they believe it). Some companies, like Patek, Rolex and JLC (who has made movements at one time or another for every haute-horology company in Switzerland) are at least selling the manufactory dream based on facts, which at least is something. But, other companies are really shameful, such as the ones that sell watches with GP Tourbillon movements / Lemaina Tourbillon movements and then claim to be manufactories, companies full of watch making tradition, truly and complete deception. Regardless what the trend might be, the real question is not only as to whom the watch company purchased the movement from (F. Piguet movements are better made/designed than ETA movements), but also as to what the watch company does with the movement. An automatic TAG, which uses a base ETA movement cannot compare to a Ulysse Nardin Astrolabe, which uses the same base ETA movement but has been so reworked, so modified and so well finished, that it hardly bares resemblance to the original movement. Jon. P.S. I apologize for typographical errors, GTG back to studying, no time to proof read. P.P.S imageWIS = Image Watch Idiot Savant [​IMG]
     
  14. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    Wow, what a post.
     
  15. sleeper

    sleeper Member

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    Well, imageWIS, you definitely lived up to your name. Great post.

    Just wanted to add my opinion/boasting. I have four watches (in order of acquisition):

    Tissot automatic (nameless, pedigree-less, bought for my 18th birthday)
    Lange 1815 (YG, white face)
    Lange One (WG, blue face)
    Casio analog with a digital background.

    Of these, only the Tissot is really valuable to me, because of its sentimental value. Recently, I've been wearing the Casio most freqently. Don't ask me why. The real joy of the Langes is that very few people know what they are, but those who do, are very impressed.

    Having bought the Langes, I now have no lust for another high-end watch, and would probably sell them to buy suits, if I didn't have to take such a mark-down. Although if I could afford a Phillippe Dufour, I would definitely buy one of those, if he would sell one to me. Now there's a watch that would really impress the cognoscenti.
     
  16. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    What a coincidence . . . you own the exact same watches as dug. Â [​IMG]
     
  17. AlanC

    AlanC Senior member

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    And the same winning personality...
     
  18. fareau

    fareau Senior member

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    LOL [​IMG]
     
  19. DPDNYC

    DPDNYC Active Member

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    On the topic of watches, my Breitling finally stopped ticking after about five years, so I went to the Tourneau world HQ on 57th Street in NYC to get the battery replaced and have some general servicing done. Much to my chagrin, I was told it had to be sent to Breitling and would take, at a minimum, four weeks to even get an estimate. Does this make sense? I hate to be without my go-to watch for that long.
     
  20. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Watch companies in general are very, very slow when it comes to service, so four weeks for an estimate on a general overhaul does not sound out of line.
     
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