The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[stevent]



Sounds like a good plan, but I'd encourage you to also try on some stuff from the next price range up: Ball/Oris (also eta movements), Alpina/Frederique Constant (in house movements), or maybe a vintage Rolex Oyster or Date which can be had for $2k or so if you look. I've owned all of those and a Hamilton. They all have their place in the world and each has given me much enjoyment.

Thanks for the recs, will take a look

 

[Bill Dlwgosh]

Any recs for the best place to get one?

jomashop.com

 

[no frills]

Also, I would most certainly NOT recommend that someone new to watches immediately purchase the most expensive watch they can possibly afford. Unless, of course, they are the type of buyer that derives satisfaction primarily from brand ownership / bragging rights etc. In which case they should just buy a random Rolex and call it a day.

While I certainly wouldn't recommend buying a watch that breaks one's budget, I think the point of advice given above about going for the relatively more expensive piece is not about brand ownership or bragging rights. The precise wording was "the nicest watch you want and can afford"... to avoid the rather common situation of going for the less expensive piece now for the sake of "prudence," only to really secretly want the more expensive piece and therefore derive less satisfaction from the less expensive piece... and then sell the less expensive piece at a loss to gun for the piece they really wanted in the first place. The implicit assumption is that (a) you really want one specific piece versus another and (b) it happens to be more expensive than your other options. Good for you if you really, really, really want the cheaper option - even if you can afford the more expensive piece. But for many of us higher prices do tend to be correlated with more desirable pieces.

The general theme seems to be - pricing aside - make sure you really want what you're buying before pulling the trigger so there are fewer second thoughts or chances of regret later.

 

[no frills]

And now, a public service announcement. The photographer Jaroslav Wieczorkiewicz came up with a novel concept: dressing models in very, very, very fast-moving milk and taking pictures like traditional 1940s pinups. What does that even mean, you ask? Here's an example:



Profile of his work here via SLR lounge.com:

http://www.slrlounge.com/traditional-40s-pinup-photos-models-wearing-high-speed-milk

The photographer's website here (warning: some photos are NSFW):

http://aurumlight.com/

Also, just so this isn't completely OT, here's a picture of a watch: one of three known examples of the Patek 1563, a split seconds chrono variation of the 1463. This piece pictured also has luminous Breguet numerals, which the other two supposedly does not have. So apparently this is pretty rare, and will go up for auction via Christie's this November. All info via Christie's/pic via Hodinkee:



Friend of mine went to a press event hosted by Christie's last Friday where the Hodinkee guys snapped these pics. He has a pretty neat wrist shot of this piece. I asked him if he was going to bid for it, but I think the $850,000 to $1,500,000 estimate is beyond his budget.

 

[RogerP]

While I certainly wouldn't recommend buying a watch that breaks one's budget, I think the point of advice given above about going for the relatively more expensive piece is not about brand ownership or bragging rights. The precise wording was "the nicest watch you want and can afford"... to avoid the rather common situation of going for the less expensive piece now for the sake of "prudence," only to really secretly want the more expensive piece and therefore derive less satisfaction from the less expensive piece... and then sell the less expensive piece at a loss to gun for the piece they really wanted in the first place. The implicit assumption is that (a) you really want one specific piece versus another and (b) it happens to be more expensive than your other options. Good for you if you really, really, really want the cheaper option - even if you can afford the more expensive piece. But for many of us higher prices do tend to be correlated with more desirable pieces.

The general theme seems to be - pricing aside - make sure you really want what you're buying before pulling the trigger so there are fewer second thoughts or chances of regret later.

Except that the advice as worded almost assumes that less expensive watches are inherently less desirable and less likely to be a source of enjoyment. Which isn't necessarily the case. Buying a more expensive piece also generally a carries a greater potential loss on resale if you find you are not as enamored with it as you hoped to be. And a newer collector is far more likely to find that his tastes change more rapidly than a seasoned collector, and hence will be more likely to be in the position of re-selling an early purchase. How much money does one stand to lose on a $600 Hamilton? Surely a lot less than on a $6,000 Omega.

All that said, I doubt anyone would dispute that making sure you really want the watch before you pull the trigger is the best way to go independent of price.

 

[no frills]

^^ Interesting. I didn't interpret Dino's statement like that at all. Anyone else think that's what Dino was trying to say?

 

[Dino944]

No, Roger my statement doesn't require one to assume any of what you have said. I never said to buy the most expensive piece... Please go and reread my post. Your attitude presumes you know me or what I meant. You don't know me nor are you correct in your interpretation of what I said. I will reply more fully when I have time.

 

[RogerP]

No, Roger my statement doesn't require one to assume any of what you have said. I never said to buy the most expensive piece... Please go and reread my post. Your attitude presumes you know me or what I meant. You don't know me nor are you correct in your interpretation of what I said. I will reply more fully when I have time.

I don't presume to know you. I did read your post. What I inferred from your post may or may not have been what you intended, but for that I have to rely on you. And as we agree, I do not know you.

 

[RogerP]

^^ Interesting. I didn't interpret Dino's statement like that at all. Anyone else think that's what Dino was trying to say?

And yet you somehow managed to extract from my post a suggestion that buying a watch that "breaks one's budget" had been advanced by anyone. Interesting indeed.

 

[RogerP]

Thanks for the replies, definitely more of the not sure if I will really enjoy the watch phase right now so will probably go for the Hamilton as it costs less than a pair of shoes. Any recs for the best place to get one?

There are a bunch of online sources and Amazon is a good one. If you will consider buying used, try www.watchrecon.com - you can search by brand and often find a very solid deal. The Zenith I bought recently was located this way.

 

[no frills]



Quote:
And yet you somehow managed to extract from my post a suggestion that buying a watch that "breaks one's budget" had been advanced by anyone. Interesting indeed.

I actually issued that statement pretty independently from any post you or Dino may have issued. I try not to extract anything from your posts actually.

 

[no frills]

And yet you somehow managed to extract from my post a suggestion that buying a watch that "breaks one's budget" had been advanced by anyone. Interesting indeed.

Sorry, brevity can sometimes be the enemy of good intentions and clear writing. I set up that first statement as the most stark contrast to any advice that's been given so far, to make a point: that all of us here want to make sure that we stay within a reasonable budget. None of the advice that's been given so far has suggested that stevent live beyond his means. And then I suggested that you may have misinterpreted what Dino was saying. You're insisting that the way he wrote his note above is consistent with your interpretation. I'm asking if anyone else interpreted his statement the way you did - because I certainly didn't get that message.

I actually do get your point about changing preferences: if you're new to the watch game you might think that the $6,000 Omega is what you really want and that you're "settling" for the $600 Hamilton... so you go for the $6,000 Omega but realize it's not what you really want as your preferences evolve. So hey, maybe it was better to have gotten the $600 Hamilton. That certainly sounds prudent to me. Am I interpreting your posts above correctly?

Must admit your comment about bragging rights and brand ownership threw me off though. I thought you were going to go on another extended rant about how brand history and all forms of company marketing are irrelevant to you, and how a watch's history don't figure at all into how you select your pieces. I am not sure anyone here believes you when you wrote all that out several pages ago.

Upon reading the last couple of pages again I realize that that may not be the case, so I apologize if I ended up coming across a bit snippy.

I will let Dino express and clarify - in what I'm sure will be an extended fashion - what he meant by his initial advice.

 

[stevent]



Sorry, brevity can sometimes be the enemy of good intentions and clear writing.  I set up that first statement as the most stark contrast to any advice that's been given so far, to make a point: that all of us here want to make sure that we stay within a reasonable budget.  None of the advice that's been given so far has suggested that stevent live beyond his means.  And then I suggested that you may have misinterpreted what Dino was saying.  You're insisting that the way he wrote his note above is consistent with your interpretation.  I'm asking if anyone else interpreted his statement the way you did - because I certainly didn't get that message.

I actually do get your point about changing preferences: if you're new to the watch game you might think that the $6,000 Omega is what you really want and that you're "settling" for the $600 Hamilton... so you go for the $6,000 Omega but realize it's not what you really want as your preferences evolve.  So hey, maybe it was better to have gotten the $600 Hamilton. That certainly sounds prudent to me.  Am I interpreting your posts above correctly?

Must admit your comment about bragging rights and brand ownership threw me off though.  I thought you were going to go on another extended rant about how brand history and all forms of company marketing are irrelevant to you, and how a watch's history don't figure at all into how you select your pieces.  I am not sure anyone here believes you when you wrote all that out several pages ago.

Upon reading the last couple of pages again I realize that that may not be the case, so I apologize if I ended up coming across a bit snippy.  

I will let Dino express and clarify - in what I'm sure will be an extended fashion - what he meant by his initial advice. 

Good points here, technically my watch budget could be $10k but at my age I think it's a waste of money when I could be earning the standard 20% or so I am getting in trading now. I am already wasting too much on shoes and should really not buy any but self control is weak when you see simply wholecuts in front of you that is customized to your feet. If I hold off on watches now for a few years I could then buy an A. Lange & Sohne or Patek which is what I really want. Which would be the smarter choice as nothing really has stood out to me. I wanted a Hamilton a few years ago out of high school but never bought it as I didn't really see the use. Been looking at watches the past few months online but again nothing really stood out. Guess it's probably better to wait until I know what I want, though I'm not sure I can figure that out without having a watch to wear daily

 

[Dino944]

What I inferred from your post may or may not have been what you intended, but for that I have to rely on you.

Roger, the interesting thing is that other people read the OP's post, read my post and agreed with my post. I inquired about the OPs mind set and in some circumstances the Hamilton might be the right choice but with a different mind set or interest level, perhaps he should spend more and get one of the other brands that interested him. Only you came away with the idea that I advocated that the OP buy the most expensive watch or that the most expensive watch a person can buy will be the most satisfying. As you seemed to be the only person who had difficulty understanding my post, perhaps the problem is not my writing, but its your reading comprehension.

I like all sorts of watches in different price ranges. I almost always congratulate people here when they post watches of varying brands and prices. I've never suggested that the most expensive watch is the most satisfying watch. People that know me or my writings here know I don't live by any such motto. I own several watches in different price ranges. If I believed the most expensive watch was the most satisfying, I'd liquidate all of my less expensive or moderate priced watches and just buy 1 or 2 very expensive watches. But I haven't done that because I enjoy different watches for different purposes, and often at different price points.

In addition, its not as though I suggested the OP commission a bespoke watch from VC. I suggested that unless he isn't sure if he is interested in getting into watches he should go for the nicest watch he wants and can afford. If he wants a $600 watch and can afford it he should get it, if its $2,000 and its what he wants and he can afford it then get it. He wasn't talking about grand complications. You probably won't lose much on the cost of a less expensive watch, but its going to have little trade in value and maybe be a pain to find a buyer for if he chooses to sell and get a piece he truly wanted but didn't buy originally. Having a watch that sits in a drawer unworn because its not what you want is a complete waste IMHO. I have a friend who for years was always bargain hunting and never quite purchasing what he wanted until later. Between depreciation of the old watch, and then price increases of the new watch he would always end up spending more than he had to when he eventually bought the piece he truly wanted. Most times it would have been much cheaper for my friend simply to buy the watch he truly wanted. I was warning the OP about that possibility.

In addition, your statement, " Unless, of course, they are the type of buyer that derives satisfaction primarily from brand ownership / bragging rights etc. In which case they should just buy a random Rolex and call it a day.

" is a bit obnoxious and that kind of reverse snobbery is tiresome. You seem to hold yourself out as some sort of idealist standing on a pulpit preaching the evils about people who buy certain well known brands, or who appreciate the history that goes with a brand ...they are the spawn of the devil drinking that Rolex (or other big name brand) Koolaid. We've all heard you on those issues. I don't think anyone's life has been ruined by purchasing a well known brand name, and I'm sure no one's life has improved drastically for choosing a more obscure brand. When a person spends as much time running away from the big brand names as other people spend running specifically to famous brand names, to me that makes them all the same...easily brand influenced.

 

[RogerP]

Sorry, brevity can sometimes be the enemy of good intentions and clear writing. I set up that first statement as the most stark contrast to any advice that's been given so far, to make a point: that all of us here want to make sure that we stay within a reasonable budget. None of the advice that's been given so far has suggested that stevent live beyond his means. And then I suggested that you may have misinterpreted what Dino was saying. You're insisting that the way he wrote his note above is consistent with your interpretation. I'm asking if anyone else interpreted his statement the way you did - because I certainly didn't get that message.

I actually do get your point about changing preferences: if you're new to the watch game you might think that the $6,000 Omega is what you really want and that you're "settling" for the $600 Hamilton... so you go for the $6,000 Omega but realize it's not what you really want as your preferences evolve. So hey, maybe it was better to have gotten the $600 Hamilton. That certainly sounds prudent to me. Am I interpreting your posts above correctly?

Must admit your comment about bragging rights and brand ownership threw me off though. I thought you were going to go on another extended rant about how brand history and all forms of company marketing are irrelevant to you, and how a watch's history don't figure at all into how you select your pieces. I am not sure anyone here believes you when you wrote all that out several pages ago.

Upon reading the last couple of pages again I realize that that may not be the case, so I apologize if I ended up coming across a bit snippy.

I will let Dino express and clarify - in what I'm sure will be an extended fashion - what he meant by his initial advice.

My response did not suggest that it had been proposed that anyone live beyond their means or break their budget. I said I would not necessarily recommend a new collector buy the most expensive watch they could possibly afford. By quoting my post and leading with that point you were either attributing that claim to me or creating a straw man. Because I did not advance that proposition, nobody else advanced that proposition, and I doubt it is one which any remotely reasonable participant in this thread would advance.

My apologies if my brand comment threw you off, though I reject your characterization of my position on brand significance as "ranting". Tell me Frills, were the others advancing a contrary position ranting as well? It may well be that no-one believed my comments about branding - but when did they appoint you as their spokesperson?


In any event. My point was that buying the most expensive watch one possibly can IS generally good advice for someone for whom branding is the most important thing. I think we can both agree that such buyers exist within the broad realm of luxury products. For such a buyer, purchasing the most expensive watch he could possibly afford would achieve the goal of getting the most brand for his dollar.