The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

[Chaconne]

Everyone who drops cash on any hobby/thing that will spend money on checks the enthusiast forums. If I'm getting a vintage Rolex or Omega, and want to gauge a fair price and see if a vendor is legit, I go to Watchuseek or Omegaforums. If I want to see about the sizing of a Hermes Bracelet, I go to Purseforum. If I am looking for Visvim or Hender Scheme sizing, or ideas about leather jackets, I come here. If I am looking to see what is a good titanium handled folding knife that opens fast and retains a good edge, I go to Bladeforums.

The enthusiast forums are where the knowledge and state of th hobby are going to be at. That's where I get the unvarnshed opinions of people who probably think way to much about a hobby, and can tell me if the latest version of the Visvim Ute Moc fits differently than last year's version. The signal is amplified way past the core membership. I am only a member of a few forums, and really, only post here, but I do look for information and even regularly read, other forums.

What rational reason, when all the online resources are at my fingertips, would I go to a place where the membership talks about whatever hedge fund managers talk about, to figure out what type of bladstock I want for my custom knife, or how thick is the Caentino fabrics on a Drake's pullover. Please.

Wait, you don’t bring your watch questions to the two SF watch threads? Too much, uh, intensity in there for ya?

 

[gdl203]

I could be mistaken, but aren't you the guys who sell Vass and Aurland at enormous mark-ups over what they actually cost here in Europe? What value do you feel this is creating for the customer?

Maybe you didn't understand the question I asked?

@dieworkwear We got into this before on the Drakes thread and I don't think we're going to agree here either. You seem to be pushing the NMWA sale on the blog so you might want to update the description of the Aurlands loafers - they're cemented construction rather than Blake.

Yeah, the examples I handled a few years ago were all cemented, similar to what you'd see on a hard soled slipper/house shoe. I'd have preferred the rubber soled version as the leather soles were very thin and incredibly stiff. Looks like they have branched out to other constructions now also.

So, no apologies at all for making false accusations and spreading misinformation?

 

[mak1277]

Everyone who drops cash on any hobby/thing that will spend money on checks the enthusiast forums. If I'm getting a vintage Rolex or Omega, and want to gauge a fair price and see if a vendor is legit, I go to Watchuseek or Omegaforums. If I want to see about the sizing of a Hermes Bracelet, I go to Purseforum. If I am looking for Visvim or Hender Scheme sizing, or ideas about leather jackets, I come here. If I am looking to see what is a good titanium handled folding knife that opens fast and retains a good edge, I go to Bladeforums.

The enthusiast forums are where the knowledge and state of th hobby are going to be at. That's where I get the unvarnshed opinions of people who probably think way to much about a hobby, and can tell me if the latest version of the Visvim Ute Moc fits differently than last year's version. The signal is amplified way past the core membership. I am only a member of a few forums, and really, only post here, but I do look for information and even regularly read, other forums.

What rational reason, when all the online resources are at my fingertips, would I go to a place where the membership talks about whatever hedge fund managers talk about, to figure out what type of bladstock I want for my custom knife, or how thick is the Caentino fabrics on a Drake's pullover. Please.

I don't know that I agree with this for the general population. There are plenty of threads on watchuseek asking about shoes or suits...I bet most of those people don't end up here. I am also on a couple of finance-related forums, and there are TONS of questions asking about a variety of consumer goods. I agree, it makes no sense to ask about suits on a finance forum, but it happens all the time. I think a lot of people just want to stick with their online tribe and not have to navigate a bunch of enthusiast forums.

 

[UrbanComposition]

I’m no economist (paging prof @unbelragazzo ) and haven’t talked to as many in the rag business as Derek and Fok but very few retailers/artisans are making money hand over fist. If anything, all the talk I’ve heard for past 20 years is about shrinking margins.

In the construction industry skilled labor (electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, etc) is the last thing that gets cut. Unskilled labor is another discussion entirely, but generally speaking construction labor in the US is at the same time the most expensive component (due to rising cost of living) and the hardest to replace, so cuts are usually made elsewhere (streamlined practices, cheaper materials, power tools, better planning, and my personal favorite: cheaper middle management).

I can only ignorantly posit that at least some of these factor into the cost of manufacturing in general. All other things equal, most people hire contractors they like because they like because they get along well and want to see them succeed. Personal relationships are valued even if one company is more expensive. If your bottom line is a cash flow, I get it, but I can’t understand why the concept of “if you like/value something, pay for it” seems unholy to some here. If you like and value unique design, limited production, and the people behind a brand, own up to it and support them with your hard-earned cash every once in a while. Otherwise buy knockoffs and own up to that.

Design takes time and costs money; copying much less so and thus will be cheaper. Over engineering is cool, but it may not be necessary in your life and so you chose something with fewer steps. Knowing that you are keeping workers in first-world countries employed may mean a great deal to you and is therefore worth the cost, or you may not care about that at all. You may identify with a brand’s carefully crafted ethos and photography or not give a whit and would rather that money dumped in “brand story” is saved and passed on to you. None of these choices are wrong, but by said choices you are supporting that company and whatever slim margins they can get.

 

[mak1277]

If your bottom line is a cash flow, I get it, but I can’t understand why the concept of “if you like/value something, pay for it” seems unholy to some here. If you like and value unique design, limited production, and the people behind a brand, own up to it and support them with your hard-earned cash every once in a while. Otherwise buy knockoffs and own up to that.

I think there are two distinctions here though as it relates to the general population. First, I (and I would bet most people) consider the work a contractor does as a service, while clothes are a product. Big difference in how you interact with a service provider vs. a seller of a product.

I also think there is a distinction between supporting a creator/designer and a retailer. I'm all for supporting creatives, but I'm less interested in supporting a "middle man" whose services I find less value-add. Certainly this line gets blurred beyond recognition at times...retailers who have collaborations, limited edition designs from various manufacturers, etc. But ultimately, if I like a brand, my first stop is going to be that brand's website, and not a random retailer's.

 

[SimonC]

Surprised @NickPollica’s 18East hasn’t been mentioned yet.

To my mind they’ve got the perfect balance of visionary founder / designer, small stock quantities that will sell through, and a highly engaged client base which knows that. So yes, hitting the sweet spot of avoiding too much inventory, and too much (well, any if we put one archive sale aside) discounting.

Antonio has also been clear about the limits to growth and his desire not to scale too fast partly in the knowledge that it brings some of the challenges being discussed on the thread.

 

[LA Guy]

Wait, you don’t bring your watch questions to the two SF watch threads? Too much, uh, intensity in there for ya?

I also do, but the watch specific forums often already have information about specific references, specific movements, etc...

 

[LA Guy]

I don't know that I agree with this for the general population. There are plenty of threads on watchuseek asking about shoes or suits...I bet most of those people don't end up here. I am also on a couple of finance-related forums, and there are TONS of questions asking about a variety of consumer goods. I agree, it makes no sense to ask about suits on a finance forum, but it happens all the time. I think a lot of people just want to stick with their online tribe and not have to navigate a bunch of enthusiast forums.

I own several forums, and while there is definitely crosstalk in all of them, the visitor statistics and the types is queries bringing people into each do not support your thesis. That is to say - the user behavior of core posters differs significantly from the majority of readers, who are either lurkers or logged out visitors.

 

[dkboze]

I live in Norway and drive past the Aurland factory several times each year. Yesterday I was out shopping and looked at several of their shoes. As already stated by @gdl203 they now have a Blake stitched line and he sells them for the exact amount as they cost here in Norway. 3500 nok/355 usd.

 

[Blake Stitched Blues]

So, no apologies at all for making false accusations and spreading misinformation?

What false accusations? You still sell Vass at hugely inflated markups and I'm sure I could find a few other examples if I spent more than five minutes on the NMWA site.

Are you going to apologise for running sales to shift the dreck you can't sell at full price, promoting those sales through social media and influencers and then bitching about customers who have the temerity to actually buy those things on sale?

 

[gdl203]

Oh... OK then. You're a real mensch

 

[beargonefishing]

What false accusations? You still sell Vass at hugely inflated markups and I'm sure I could find a few other examples if I spent more than five minutes on the NMWA site.

Are you going to apologise for running sales to shift the dreck you can't sell at full price, promoting those sales through social media and influencers and then bitching about customers who have the temerity to actually buy those things on sale?

What's their markup?

 

[dieworkwear]

Are you going to apologise for running sales to shift the dreck you can't sell at full price

Styleforum guys: "I want you to run a sale AND apologize for the sale"

 

[gdl203]

What's their markup?

on Vass, we make a whopping 30% margin (woo hoo!) on our cost after duties and transportation/shipping. Yay!

 

[beargonefishing]

on Vass, we make a whopping 30% margin (woo hoo!) on our cost after duties and transportation/shipping. Yay!

Clearly that guy is grinding an ax for some reason. He doesn't own an American retail store or import goods here.

It reminds me of the guy at the sports bar going "why did they sign that QB, he threw 15 interceptions." It's absurdly reductive.