The official CELINE thread

[VinceCompost]

the idea of screaming into a mic and thrashing with a guitar is rebellious.

It is? Did I just wake up in 1958?

 

[ASAPRice]

He's done it on other occasions, namely with the same folks as the FW21 soundtrack for FW07:


Underground subcultures will always exist. There are incredible underground music scenes in Paris, Berlin, London, Tokyo.. but also probably somewhere in Ohio. Tik Tok isn't the end of the world.. The soundtrack for FW21 is a good example. The project actually started with Hedi sending the band French Military marching drums, they added the subs, FX and vocals. Pretty edgy concept when you think about it.

As for SLP > Celine as far as the atmosphere, runway and music I have to disagree. I find Celine a lot edgier and avant-guarde than SLP. But then again I loathe LA hipsters and got bored very quickly of the whole psychedelic surf rock shenanigans. I'm more into european electronic music so Celine is right up my alley as far as the musical culture (for reference Jacno is actually a cult French electronic music producer). I also find the runway shows are his best yet and the video presentations are simply stunning.

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

Chanson Pour Olivia is a banger I won't lie, not a huge fan of the rest of Jacno's work though (granted I've only listened to like 5 other songs). I also definitely agree the video presentations for the last two Celine seasons were fuckin sick, but I'd also wonder what Hedi would've done during SLP if covid happened. Imagine SS15 at Monument Valley with a bunch of horses roaming around in the back. That'd be sick.

Dior will still probably always be my favorite Hedi tenure with SS15 super highly ranked for me too. I can definitely see how something like SS16 would be super boring, especially if you grew up in LA.

 

[thorns]

find Celine a lot edgier and avant-guarde than SLP.

Just based on the accessories, I can feel that Celine is more designed than Saint Laurent. Saint Laurent items were super classical whereas Celine feels like it edges a bit more experimental.

The sunglasses for Saint Laurent were very minimalistic. The Celine sunglasses has interesting designed edges.

vs

The "classical" rings and bracelets for Saint Laurent also very minimalistic compared to Celine.

vs

The accessories at Saint Laurent were more effortless and classical. The accessories at Celine is more designed and feels more special, but also less effortless.

 

[Noiretblanc]

Which bit is that? Evidently your reading comprehension isn't great.

You likely mean the bit where the article states that other people claim that Gen Y wear skinny jeans in order to appear younger:

"Like other users she says millennials should stop wearing them to look younger."

"She" being a tik-tok user. Not the journalist. I.e. they are reporting somebody else's point of view. Not their own.

Reporting what other people have said and done is precisely why news organizations exist. Why is this "horrible"?

Thanks for the analysis. I apologize for having rushed though this pointless article you hold in such high regard while on a short break at work. I work in healthcare so I’m not currently zooming from my couch in my pajamas, eating potato chips and critiquing how people read in a hurry when they have things to do.

 

[thorns]

It is? Did I just wake up in 1958?

It is as rebellious as black is sexy and goth. Our world is trapped. We are suffocated by context. I can see the truth so clearly now. Mental illness will be commercialized. Nothing will be more rebellious than overt aggression. Humans will always have a visceral feeling when confronted with psychopathic traits.

 

[VinceCompost]

Thanks for the analysis. I apologize for having rushed though this pointless article you hold in such high regard while on a short break at work. I work in healthcare so I’m not currently zooming from my couch in my pajamas, eating potato chips and critiquing how people read in a hurry when they have things to do.

I don't remotely care about the article. In fact it largely seems to be a rewrite of the equally inane Vice one I posted a few days back.

Working in healthcare = Good. If somewhat irrelevant here other than as a way to gain points.

Critiquing things without having taken sufficient time to understand them = Less good. Although admittedly something we all do from time to time.

Calling out inaccuracies = I don't see the problem with this.

 

[VinceCompost]

It is as rebellious as black is sexy and goth. Our world is trapped. We are suffocated by context. I can see the truth so clearly now. Mental illness will be commercialized. Nothing will be more rebellious than overt aggression. Humans will always have a visceral feeling when confronted with psychopathic traits.

What you're talking about is something else. An empty and cliched image of rebellion. Not actual rebellion.

To be rebellious means to kick against the status quo.

For the last 50 years the status quo* has largely consisted of people "screaming into a mic and thrashing with a guitar." Whatever it might mean to be rebellious today, I'm pretty certain it's not this.

*within a musical/youth culture context, obviously.

 

[kieran84]

SS13 and AW15 are easily my favourite collections but I like and have bits and pieces from all over the place that fit my style. I like AW14 a lot too. I think Celine has been maybe slightly better than Saint Laurent for me until this year, but I found Saint Laurent jackets fit me better.

Alot of the younger people I know seem to listen to UK artists that do grime and drill type stuff including posh kids I'd have never expected. Not my thing. House and techno seem to be having a bit of a resurgence with the young people here too which I like more.

 

[VinceCompost]

I want to say that certain things will have rebellious connotations. It is hard for me to imagine anger ever losing edge.

But then again I can see how when it gets commercialized, it starts becoming something different. Are you truly rebellious or just playing the role like an actor? Then you break it down into whether it matters whether the artist is rebellious "off screen" or if that loses authenticity for the art they're creating? Which then leads to the question of aren't we all playing roles in life? What does authenticity really mean? Can people be nuanced? Rebellious in certain situations and not in other situations?

Perhaps true rebellion needs to hurt. As long as you're hurting others or yourself you can be considered rebellious. Just merely play the role and faking the hurt isn't good enough. I became a Lil Peep fan only because he killed himself. I liked Chester's songs only because he killed himself. That to me brings authenticity to their art. Their pain was anchored in reality.

I would consider the serial murderer dressed in full prep being rebellious as much as the ****** in tattoos and a biker jacket. It isn't so much what they wear, it is what they do. You can't be a true rebel unless you're being a predator and hurting others. How rebellious you are is then determined by how far you're willing to take it. Killing innocent children is probably max rebel.

I'm not sure I'd agree that rebellion needs to hurt. But it does need to involve a degree of risk. I'll let you decide whether screaming mics and thrashing guitars qualify today.

 

[Noiretblanc]

I don't remotely care about the article. In fact it largely seems to be a rewrite of the equally inane Vice one I posted a few days back.

Working in healthcare = Good. If somewhat irrelevant here other than as a way to gain points.

Critiquing things without having taken sufficient time to understand them = Less good. Although admittedly something we all do from time to time.

Calling out inaccuracies = I don't see the problem with this.

Christ, if you spent as much time and dedication doing literally anything other than analyzing an article from The Guardian, the world would be your oyster. Don’t lose that passion for the insignificant, the world needs guys like you.

Also, I’m not sure when you last visited a medical facility of any sort but there are no points to be earned.

 

[Deonfate]

Lately I've been having more empathy and understanding regarding the Celine situation. Bernard probably got Hedi by his nose hairs pushing him to deliver more numbers, given that they invested so much in him. It must be a really hard situation for him since the brand is """"struggling""", plus this whole skinny vs baggy debate really puts the Slimane look and legacy into question. No one can fight the changing tides of fashionable silhouettes, all once-popular styles fell at one point in time. No one is above that. It's interesting to see how someone so intricately associated with one look could evolve his aesthetics to accommodate the modern customer.

However both the 2021 seasons irk desperation. It seems like they threw everything out there in hopes to have something for everyone. FW21 seems like its a mish-mash of the past collections (they look like they re-purposed previous samples) curated to look like what's currently selling on the market. Sensing a very Balenciaga influence, and an unexpected ressemblance to Gucci. Demna also showed a similar theme of modern medieval knight two months ago. It's not particularity new or edgy even in mainstream (Post Malone circles, Timothé chalamet in the king, the new final fantasy, Game of thrones, the soon to be released Amazon's Lord of the rings), but somehow it feels very fitting for the times and very beautifully presented.

The last collection is the most devoid of "Hediness". Gone is the svelte silhouette and the realistic styling. Slimane collections used to have a streamlined focus and clarity of intent that seems to be completely absent here. It also doesn't fit at all in the brand narrative (new or old or original Celine). It feels like it's a sign of defeat. It looks quite trendy in a bad way as in it looks like what hip designers been doing over the past years. It's not particularly distinctive or original to be exciting. Hedi used to have more authority and more unique voice in the field. I also don't believe his successor at Celine will continue his direction, unlike the previous ones who still struggle to get out of his shadow. A sign of his failure to establish the brand and launch it into the fashion consciousness.

On the bright side the brand let go of the 70s flare/bohemian/rocker style they've been pushing for a while. It was a very shaky proposition that didn't go anywhere. FW19 preppy style was a much stronger direction that he eventually came back to. Regardless, let's hope he designs the next it bag soon to save his head. Meanwhile go buy a fragrance or get your girlfriends a 16 bag if you want to keep Hedi in business.

 

[thorns]

However both the 2021 seasons irk desperation. It seems like they threw everything out there in hopes to have something for everyone. FW21 seems like its a mish-mash of the past collections (they look like they re-purposed previous samples) curated to look like what's currently selling on the market.

I would agree and add that they're been desperate for a while now with how they've been pushing bags onto celebrities and influencers on Instagram. I really want to say the Saint Laurent team didn't do it back when Hedi was there. There are high expectations on Celine, a relatively unknown brand compared to the giants and in the eyes of the demographic they want to target.

The last collection is the most devoid of "Hediness". Gone is the svelte silhouette and the realistic styling.

I would argue that "Hediness" is more of the narrative painted by fashion "journalists". Hedi is a lot more complex to be just boxed into one thing. Looking at the entirety of his work will reveal how he has done more voluminous silhouettes at Yves Saint Laurent Rive Gauche Homme and early Dior Homme. This look for ss05 is pretty voluminous with the pants.

Regarding the realistic styling, I do want to hesitantly agree. None of it is for me, but I can't help but consider it might be realistic to the East Asian market.

It also doesn't fit at all in the brand narrative (new or old or original Celine).

This is where I would go back to what Hedi said before.

At Celine, the weight of the past is not as strong as at Dior or Saint Laurent. We can break free of it more easily. Celine is a vision of Paris, a way of being worn… I don’t want to lock it up in something. There’s no constraint, no model that is linked to a very important legacy. Starting from here, we can coin a vocabulary. What’s important is always now.

I feel like there are multiple narratives of Celine. Celine has to diversify in order to make as much money as quickly as possible by targeting almost everyone. It is easy to imagine how someone interested in one segment might not be interested in other segments.

• classical tailoring
• casual pieces
• couture
• Phoebe's bags and accessories
• Hedi's bags and accessories
• fragrances

I also don't believe his successor at Celine will continue his direction, unlike the previous ones who still struggle to get out of his shadow. A sign of his failure to establish the brand and launch it into the fashion consciousness.

This is unfair to Phoebe since Hedi basically did that to Phoebe. I would agree that if Hedi doesn't make Celine as big of a cash cow then it is easy to imagine his successor will have more leeway to revamp the brand.

Meanwhile go buy a fragrance or get your girlfriends a 16 bag if you want to keep Hedi in business.

Which then ties neatly to the fact that it isn't hard to imagine that Celine will discontinue Hedi's fragrances when he leaves. They might keep a few best sellers and axe the rest.

 

[Deonfate]

I would agree and add that they're been desperate for a while now with how they've been pushing bags onto celebrities and influencers on Instagram. I really want to say the Saint Laurent team didn't do it back when Hedi was there. There are high expectations on Celine, a relatively unknown brand compared to the giants and in the eyes of the demographic they want to target.

I would argue that "Hediness" is more of the narrative painted by fashion "journalists". Hedi is a lot more complex to be just boxed into one thing. Looking at the entirety of his work will reveal how he has done more voluminous silhouettes at Yves Saint Laurent Rive Gauche Homme and early Dior Homme. This look for ss05 is pretty voluminous with the pants.
View attachment 1554945 View attachment 1554946

Regarding the realistic styling, I do want to hesitantly agree. None of it is for me, but I can't help but consider it might be realistic to the East Asian market.

This is where I would go back to what Hedi said before.


I feel like there are multiple narratives of Celine. Celine has to diversify in order to make as much money as quickly as possible by targeting almost everyone. It is easy to imagine how someone interested in one segment might not be interested in other segments.

• classical tailoring
• casual pieces
• couture
• Phoebe's bags and accessories
• Hedi's bags and accessories
• fragrances

This is unfair to Phoebe since Hedi basically did that to Phoebe. I would agree that if Hedi doesn't make Celine as big of a cash cow then it is easy to imagine his successor will have more leeway to revamp the brand.


Which then ties neatly to the fact that it isn't hard to imagine that Celine will discontinue Hedi's fragrances when he leaves. They might keep a few best sellers and axe the rest.

What I refer to as the Svelte silhouette is a streamlined elongated line that could be achieved by skinny or baggy pants like SS05 or even with flares. Some looks in FW21 make the models look short and distinctively lousy. A far departure from that line.

 

[thorns]

I'm just going to guess that Parade, Black Tie, Reptile, Eau de Californie, and Nightclubbing are the best sellers based on the webstore listings. They're pretty straight forward and easy to digest. Saint-Germain-des-Prés is probably the most interesting and unique out of the bunch, but personally I would prefer to lets girls wear it because it is too beautiful for me. Cologne Française, with its unusual waxy creamy woody quality might be a bit foreign to most people. They will find it difficult to identify what's going on and move on. I think Dans Paris will resonate with the crowd that likes sweet scents. I will have to re-test La Peau Nue since I didn't really give it a chance. I do want to tease it out and experience it in slow-motion. I trap the test strips under wine glasses and I smell the air that is trapped in the glass periodically.

 

[Noiretblanc]

I certainly hope Hedi isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. As the oversized streetwear look is not and has never been my thing, he’s been one of the few designers who make clothes that I actually want to wear rather than just appreciate their shows. I do like Vaccarello but like with anything else, there are things I prefer and things I’d rather he left out. FW21 is far superior to SS21 in my opinion, probably because I’ve always had a fascination with the medieval era and fat chance I’m going out in the colors/emblems he proposed in The Dancing Kid. I thought the jewelry was very juvenile in SS21 (friendship bracelets, anyone?) but I really like the various earrings in FW21. My sole ambition next season is to be a goth George Michael. I wouldn’t wear any of Teen Knight Poem from head to toe but the studded leather jerkin vest over a denim jacket is what caught my attention. Maybe the black knight/cowboy ankle boots with the silver toe. Like I need more boots but given my childhood obsession with knights and the fact that I’m a born and raised Texan, I think they’re too fun to pass up. Anything you all might pick up come August?