The Hong Kong Tailors Thread

[schumanfu]

I'll have to take some photos tomorrow. I only have one suit so far so I don't have multiples to showcase but I'd be curious to know what makes their suits inferior. I'm new to the bespoke world as I just moved to Hong Kong and it seems to be a big part of the culture here. I definitely enjoy the process of having a piece of clothing fit just for me and being able to choose from luxurious fabrics. The turnaround time was longer than I'm used to in terms of instant gratification but something I have to get used to with bespoke garments right?

Anxious to learn more. I was referred to Senszio by a friend and it's definitely more in my price range but I didn't want some shabby glued piece of garbage that I'd heard about elsewhere. Seemed like a good option but I'm no oficionado like most people here.

 

[GBR]

I'll have to take some photos tomorrow. I only have one suit so far so I don't have multiples to showcase but I'd be curious to know what makes their suits inferior. I'm new to the bespoke world as I just moved to Hong Kong and it seems to be a big part of the culture here. I definitely enjoy the process of having a piece of clothing fit just for me and being able to choose from luxurious fabrics. The turnaround time was longer than I'm used to in terms of instant gratification but something I have to get used to with bespoke garments right?

Anxious to learn more. I was referred to Senszio by a friend and it's definitely more in my price range but I didn't want some shabby glued piece of garbage that I'd heard about elsewhere. Seemed like a good option but I'm no oficionado like most people here.

• Obviously I hope it turns out well for you but I fear that the person who referred you to this outfit does not have high standards. As you are resident in the colony, you should consider AMHC which has a shop in the Mandarin, (extremely good if more expensive), Gordon Yao at the Royal Garden Hotel (Mody Street) or GT in Causeway Bay. This company has a work room in a block not far from Times Square and an easy four minute walk from the MTR. Yes, it is somewhat down at heel, but this is both work room and shop front and a superb suit will emanate from this company. No web site or frills but good quality work.

• Someone may say Chan. Opinions differ, they were certainly one of the best firms a few years ago but they have expanded and some people rightly feel that this has diluted the skills available to them. Good tailors are getting older and there are simply not enough to go round.

• Avoid Y William Yu, bad reports of late and certainly brush all the Asian touts aside that you encounter at Star Ferry Kowloonside. Once you have bought your 'copy watch' from them, they will try to sell you a rag which will fall to pieces double quick. Treat them with complete disdain, they're used to it and there is no reason to be polite. Their targets are primarily tourists who will be back on their planes to go home before disintegration afflicts the rag they have been sold.

• The best tailors come from Canton and this is another reason to avoid Senzio whose front of house people are Asian. That is not racist comment merely a reflection that Canton is/was the seat of good tailors and training. This firm also has far too many representatives which says to me that they are seeking volume without undue attention to quality. The two do bot go hand in hand as I make clear above.

 

[Mannebrother]

Hello guys, another newbie here.

So I been trying to read all reviews and recommendations I have found about different tailors in HK. However most of them are a few years back and may be dated by now, so Im gonna go for it:

With a budget of 12-13000 HKD to have two tailored suits in Hong Kong, and with 7-8 days on my hand. Where do you think should I go to? Im looking to have some decent fabric (VBC/Reda?), but not anything very fancy. I want good quality hand work and "european" style, with not so much build up, and slender shoulders (do you say "slender"? I think youll know what i mean..). The attached picture shows pretty much what Im going for.

Im currently looking at Il Sarto, which seems to be a little out of my price range (and can only squeeze in two fittings in that time). Therefore, I'm considering Empire International or maybe Peter Lee. Whats the verdict on those two nowadays? Any other suggestions?

Thanks alot!

(If this information is updated and available elsewhere, i would be grateful to receive a link)

/Magnus

 

[schumanfu]

• Obviously I hope it turns out well for you but I fear that the person who referred you to this outfit does not have high standards. As you are resident in the colony, you should consider AMHC which has a shop in the Mandarin, (extremely good if more expensive), Gordon Yao at the Royal Garden Hotel (Mody Street) or GT in Causeway Bay. This company has a work room in a block not far from Times Square and an easy four minute walk from the MTR. Yes, it is somewhat down at heel, but this is both work room and shop front and a superb suit will emanate from this company. No web site or frills but good quality work.

• Someone may say Chan. Opinions differ, they were certainly one of the best firms a few years ago but they have expanded and some people rightly feel that this has diluted the skills available to them. Good tailors are getting older and there are simply not enough to go round.

• Avoid Y William Yu, bad reports of late and certainly brush all the Asian touts aside that you encounter at Star Ferry Kowloonside. Once you have bought your 'copy watch' from them, they will try to sell you a rag which will fall to pieces double quick. Treat them with complete disdain, they're used to it and there is no reason to be polite. Their targets are primarily tourists who will be back on their planes to go home before disintegration afflicts the rag they have been sold.

• The best tailors come from Canton and this is another reason to avoid Senzio whose front of house people are Asian. That is not racist comment merely a reflection that Canton is/was the seat of good tailors and training. This firm also has far too many representatives which says to me that they are seeking volume without undue attention to quality. The two do bot go hand in hand as I make clear above.

Thanks a lot for the information. I would love to find a tailor that offers good quality but isn't the "Rolls-Royce" of bespoke tailoring as I simply cannot afford or justify such extravagance. So far the suit I got is holding up but it is relatively new and hasn't taken much rigor from travel or weather just yet. (I haven't had time to take the photos you mentioned but would like to see what you have to say about it so I can be more informed next time.

Regarding the Canton mention. What does that mean? I'm not as versed on the cultural groups in the region. Sorry for my ignorance. Their receptionists and some admins are Hong Konger (asian, cantonese speakers) but the "Bespoke Master," as they call themselves, was of Indian decent. Does Canton mean Indian? Regarding amount of representatives, I'm curious about that as well. Would you say that the smaller tailor houses with the store fronts that have only a few people in their employ are the way to go?

Thanks in advance.

 

[GBR]

Thanks a lot for the information. I would love to find a tailor that offers good quality but isn't the "Rolls-Royce" of bespoke tailoring as I simply cannot afford or justify such extravagance. So far the suit I got is holding up but it is relatively new and hasn't taken much rigor from travel or weather just yet. (I haven't had time to take the photos you mentioned but would like to see what you have to say about it so I can be more informed next time.

Regarding the Canton mention. What does that mean? I'm not as versed on the cultural groups in the region. Sorry for my ignorance. Their receptionists and some admins are Hong Konger (asian, cantonese speakers) but the "Bespoke Master," as they call themselves, was of Indian decent. Does Canton mean Indian? Regarding amount of representatives, I'm curious about that as well. Would you say that the smaller tailor houses with the store fronts that have only a few people in their employ are the way to go?

Thanks in advance.

No, Canton certainly does not mean Asian. Canton is a geographic area of the mainland known for its tailors who migrated to Hong Kong whilst it was a British Colony (and would be today if it was allowed to choose) because there was a large market of UK ex-pats who wanted fine tailoring and that they would not be persecuted. The migration was hastened by events in mainland China. Gordon Yao is a typical case in point; his father came to Hong Kong from Canton in 1935 and opened a shop to sell his wares. Gordon was trained in the old Cantonese way and succeeded to the business when his father died.

The Bespoke Master is one that I have not come upon as I don't waste time with such persons. However the Cantonese term that is commonly used is 'Master Craftsman'. I would guess that this is some term invented by the Asians to try to impart a veneer of ability over their efforts. They will employ Hongkongers as obviously they dominate the labour market and an ability to be fluent in Cantonese and English is essential.

The problem with having so many representatives is that each has to generate a substantial number of orders to claim commissions etc and justify their existence. That then points to factory production where output targets are the driver not quality and given that Master Craftsmen are getting fewer in numbers points to declining standards. Any Representative's focus is primarily the order despite the fine words quality is further damaged. I rather think that the over emphasis on 'Quality Control' is supposed to somehow paper over this dreadful fact. How many firms in any trade actually labour that point? Quality to the best is a given.

W W Chan was long one of the up-market houses and I had a couple of suits from them when I first went to Hong Kong in 1995, they subsequently expanded including a Shenzen branch. They still have Patrick travelling but many have commented standards have fallen. In fairness, other will say the reverse. What is common agreement is that the Shenzen branch is nowhere near as good as the Hong Kong parent company as a result of different people. The smaller houses such as GT sell from the workroom which in any land is better as you can meet people critical to the garment and see what is going on. Whether each has a shop front is really a question of costs. Gordon does, AHMC do; these shops are in hotel arcades as they target visitors. However, having a shop at the Mandarin (AHMC) or the Royal Garden Hotel (Yao) is not cheap (most such property in Hong Kong is not cheap) and that reflects in their prices. GT is more oriented to the domestic market, I use them now and that is solely on the basis of a recommendation from a friend who is a native Hong Konger. AHMC is excellent as well, again a recommendation; Gordon was an earlier recommendation from Ascot Chiang the shirt maker when they worked together. That has changed now and Ascot Chang hawks its own suits. On the basis that they are by far the best shirt maker I cannot but assume that they aspire to joining the top end suit market. Their existing customers would expect nothing less and if the suits were dire that would reflect upon their core shirt market.

You pays your money and takes your chance; I have never so much a looked at the bottom end of the market but there are enough tales here to satisfy me in that point and the Express Buses to CLK are their best asset!

 

[GBR]

Hello guys, another newbie here.

So I been trying to read all reviews and recommendations I have found about different tailors in HK. However most of them are a few years back and may be dated by now, so Im gonna go for it:

With a budget of 12-13000 HKD to have two tailored suits in Hong Kong, and with 7-8 days on my hand. Where do you think should I go to? Im looking to have some decent fabric (VBC/Reda?), but not anything very fancy. I want good quality hand work and "european" style, with not so much build up, and slender shoulders (do you say "slender"? I think youll know what i mean..). The attached picture shows pretty much what Im going for.

Im currently looking at Il Sarto, which seems to be a little out of my price range (and can only squeeze in two fittings in that time). Therefore, I'm considering Empire International or maybe Peter Lee. Whats the verdict on those two nowadays? Any other suggestions?

Thanks alot!

(If this information is updated and available elsewhere, i would be grateful to receive a link)

/Magnus

View attachment 823218

Who the hell is Il Sarto, sounds like an Italian/Asian hybrid. Having just had a quick look at its website (prominent Italian National Rag to the fore) I am entirely underwhelmed and would not touch them with barge pole. I have never heard or read of decent tailoring being a "concept", it isn't, it is a skilled trade passed down through the generations. Their is no mention whatever of hand work, canvassing etc just broad promises to build what you require - the 'come-on' in retail parlance.

The shop front is posh but one does not wear that! As to whether they can build (not craft as these may well be machine sewn in a sweat shop not even in HK) as you require is a matter of pure chance. If you do favour them with your commission you should at least have reviewed the suits for others in the shop to evidence the fulsome statements they will make about it being an absolute pleasure to create whatever you require - which will be ready just before your taxi to the airport hoots to signify its presence for third time.

Peter Lee does have one or two approvals further down the market here although I have absolutely no personal evidence of that.

 

[seferphier]

From what I've seen Il Sarto makes fused suits for the massive premium they charge for (approx 10k). I would stay away.

GBR's post should be a sticky in this thread for new comers. I would add Browns tailor and Dreams bespoke into the mix of tailor shop to be recommended.

I've found a repeated pattern of new comers' posts:
"I'm coming to HK for 5 days and I'm looking to make a suit for approximately HKDXXXX. I've been read this thread [he has not] and I would like to ask the opinion about XYZ Tailor [a tailor that has not well known, reviewed, mentioned in this thread]. Do you any recommended tailors?"

As someone mentioned before, HK tailoring scene is a landmine, not a goldmine. Stick with reputable tailoring houses since they have very high standards by default. If you appear to look like a newbie to tailoring, smaller tailoring houses will give you an inferior product. Whereas, reputable tailoring houses might want to educate you on the craft of their suits and the reason why they charge such a premium on their suits. You can only deviate from reputable tailoring houses when you mastered the lingo and know exactly what to look for (style, craft and fitting).

 

[MarcinVA]

Just a quick up: going for my second fit with Chan tomorrow. I will make sure I get lots of pics as I will have their tailors returning to DC in October.

I really liked what I saw with the first fitting. They were very willing to both give advice and make changes. And I think it was Bamboo who recommended BBC Revenge--thanks for that! Really lovely fabric!

 

[IsABellyDad]

No, Canton certainly does not mean Asian. Canton is a geographic area of the mainland known for its tailors who migrated to Hong Kong whilst it was a British Colony (and would be today if it was allowed to choose) because there was a large market of UK ex-pats who wanted fine tailoring and that they would not be persecuted. The migration was hastened by events in mainland China. Gordon Yao is a typical case in point; his father came to Hong Kong from Canton in 1935 and opened a shop to sell his wares. Gordon was trained in the old Cantonese way and succeeded to the business when his father died.

Hmm... The typical understanding of "Canton" (when it relates to China) is Guangdong province.

Most top-tier tailors in HK actually origins in Shanghai (e.g. Gordon Yao and W W Chan) - who came to HK to escape the chaos in mainland (wars, Cultural Revolution, ...). If you go to Chan (or google), you can see the graduation certificate showing that Mr. W W Chan graduated from the Shanghai Cutting and Tailoring College in year 1943 (Republic of China Year 32). That's why you will hear them (older generation tailors) talking in Shanghai dialect among themselves. W W Chan has re-opened a shop in Shanghai (not Shenzhen).

There are tailors also from Canton (Guangdong province) - given that Guangzhou and Hong Kong are also major trade ports with lots of foreigner. For example, AMHC was founded in HK in year 1898.

I guess (without much research into this topic) this is also how the "Shanghai workmanship" and "Guangdong workmanship" come by.

 

[schumanfu]

I finally had a chance to take some photos in my Senszio tailored suit. My one arm is longer than the other, something that was noted during the fitting. Sometimes I notice my shirt sleeve poking out the jacket sleeve more or less depending on how I'm standing and how the shirt is positioned against my body at the time.

And thank you GBR for the further details about Canton and the history there. From an American's point of view, anyone located in Asia is Asian, except for Russia, who are Russians and India who are Indians. Interesting to hear someone else's interpretation of the word. As I've traveled the world I've grown to realize people's definitions and identifications vary greatly. For instance, I call myself American. However, someone from South America might also, but the rest of the world typically wouldn't call someone from Argentina "American." Anyways, semantics but I appreciate the perspective.

Anyways, I'm curious what you have to say about the quality of crafstmanship and fit from my first tailored suit. The color choices are my own and I was trying to replicate a specific look. Feel free to critique it all. I'm here to learn.

Cheers.

 

[bamboo]

For a new to Hong Kong and who cares about its tailoring history etc, Mark Cho's writing below is still a good summary. I inserted a space after www. because I don't know if direct hyperlink is allowed.

www. markcho.com/abridged-history-of-tailoring-in-hong-kong/

 

[bamboo]

I finally had a chance to take some photos in my Senszio tailored suit. My one arm is longer than the other, something that was noted during the fitting. Sometimes I notice my shirt sleeve poking out the jacket sleeve more or less depending on how I'm standing and how the shirt is positioned against my body at the time.

And thank you GBR for the further details about Canton and the history there. From an American's point of view, anyone located in Asia is Asian, except for Russia, who are Russians and India who are Indians. Interesting to hear someone else's interpretation of the word. As I've traveled the world I've grown to realize people's definitions and identifications vary greatly. For instance, I call myself American. However, someone from South America might also, but the rest of the world typically wouldn't call someone from Argentina "American." Anyways, semantics but I appreciate the perspective.

Anyways, I'm curious what you have to say about the quality of crafstmanship and fit from my first tailored suit. The color choices are my own and I was trying to replicate a specific look. Feel free to critique it all. I'm here to learn.

Cheers.

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I am concerned about these folds. I don't know what are beneath the jacket, but I think properly constructed lapel should not behave like this.

Regarding the fit, it looks trousers have more room to improve.

 

[GBR]

From what I've seen Il Sarto makes fused suits for the massive premium they charge for (approx 10k). I would stay away.

GBR's post should be a sticky in this thread for new comers. I would add Browns tailor and Dreams bespoke into the mix of tailor shop to be recommended.

I've found a repeated pattern of new comers' posts:
"I'm coming to HK for 5 days and I'm looking to make a suit for approximately HKDXXXX. I've been read this thread [he has not] and I would like to ask the opinion about XYZ Tailor [a tailor that has not well known, reviewed, mentioned in this thread]. Do you any recommended tailors?"

As someone mentioned before, HK tailoring scene is a landmine, not a goldmine. Stick with reputable tailoring houses since they have very high standards by default. If you appear to look like a newbie to tailoring, smaller tailoring houses will give you an inferior product. Whereas, reputable tailoring houses might want to educate you on the craft of their suits and the reason why they charge such a premium on their suits. You can only deviate from reputable tailoring houses when you mastered the lingo and know exactly what to look for (style, craft and fitting).

Good advice;

People do still have this silly idea that Hong Kong products are excellent but cheap, oh and be made in 2 Days with three fittings included. They can't but it still surprises me that people claim to have searched this thread and still expect a hand tailored suit for $HK2,000!

I have every confidence that there are a number of houses which do not feature on any web board as their clientele is 95% locals. After my experiences with Chan, I grew to know the place and people and could take advice which has been very welcome and helped enormously. As you say you need far more knowledge to do this but what you will find here are pointers to some good houses in more prominent positions. To suggest that some one looks for room 5, 10th floor, Hangcheung Mansions off this road or that is not going to work! Finding the said mansions (which is not a large house) can actually be very difficult as the entrance may well be squeezed between two ground level shop fronts.

 

[GBR]

I finally had a chance to take some photos in my Senszio tailored suit. My one arm is longer than the other, something that was noted during the fitting. Sometimes I notice my shirt sleeve poking out the jacket sleeve more or less depending on how I'm standing and how the shirt is positioned against my body at the time.

And thank you GBR for the further details about Canton and the history there. From an American's point of view, anyone located in Asia is Asian, except for Russia, who are Russians and India who are Indians. Interesting to hear someone else's interpretation of the word. As I've traveled the world I've grown to realize people's definitions and identifications vary greatly. For instance, I call myself American. However, someone from South America might also, but the rest of the world typically wouldn't call someone from Argentina "American." Anyways, semantics but I appreciate the perspective.

Anyways, I'm curious what you have to say about the quality of crafstmanship and fit from my first tailored suit. The color choices are my own and I was trying to replicate a specific look. Feel free to critique it all. I'm here to learn.

Cheers.

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Now I hope you don't mind, I have picked up on a few points, the devil is always in the detail bit I do think that he actually made this garment. First off your slight apology for the colour. Absolutely no need, it certainly one which I could see myself wearing.

1

This first rear view shows various oddities which a competent cutter should have rectified. Some might say 'is it serious'. If you are paying for such claims as the make, then yes it does. With so much quality control going on in this firm, no one seems to have remembered 'does it fit'?

I would also wonder if there is some pressure causing the vent to start to strain (there is, I am being polite). It should simply hang vertically, not at a jaunty angle!

2

The sleeve - that should have been picked up by second fitting and corrected.

3

Things now get bad. Those trousers are simply bad and show no skill on the part of the salesman who attended you. I will not say either tailor or cutter because I cannot see one has been near the fitting.

Did the salesman ask you what you used your inside coat pockets for (if anything) . That is an essential as an allowance needs to be made in the measurements so that there is no unsightly bulge which tells pick pockets and others that you have a wallet in this pocket or that. The top button is already pulling - with nothing in you pockets. Black mark, this is very bad.

Those lapels are a disgrace and for even a salesman to let this garment out of the shop tells us great deal about the house. Presumably the QC staff were taking Dim Sum when this was flung from the work room window - assuming it has one. I'd take it round to one of the temples ask nicely if someone would burn it for you. This is shear nonsense - I don't recall having see such a disgrace even from Raja or Sams!

8

Those trousers again!!

9

This is why sight of the inside of the coat is essential. What is that scrap of cloth upon which your initials are badly embroidered supposed to be? It looks dreadful, is not symmetrical and the stitching looks as if a blind person has done it! Small point? No, it is clearly visible and shows that shoddy work does not trouble them. With so much Quality Control effort going into the garment, presumably no one could see it for want other inspectors standing in front of them!

You are going to see that every time you put on or take off that coat or indeed use the inner pocket. It don't have much eye appeal so what else is lurking?

Did you select that specific lining - it is a cheap one and if you were not offered something better.....

The pockets look very small but more importantly what discussion did the salesman lead on inside pockets? This is often neglected by those commissioning suits. You have the standard but you may have different preferences - a ticket pocket either side is becoming more and more needed these days. Whilst picking this up here, did he ask what trouser pockets you wanted? Things like no back pockets come to mind.






7/8
The pick stitch edging is clearly machine finished and not hand work. The button holes leave much to be desired. I suppose that one should not complain too much as hand work appears not to be a part of 'concept' driven tailoring.


Thanks for taking the trouble to take and post these, pictures tell far more that words. Don't be too down hearted, this is the difficulty in trying to shop from a guide book or whatever, taking advice from someone who has previously fallen for the salesman's patter. Then comes something that looks like a nice shop, with a friendly man welcoming you in. Check back here, there is a vast data base of advice which this thread has built up and you can find middle of the road shops which work. Sadly this ain't one!

If you do look back in this thread I did write up my personal experiences of buying suits (and shirts) in HK over 25 odd years. Reading took me to Chan and Ascot Chiang (shirts), AC took me to Gordon Yao and then, as I made one or two friends, one of whom is a very discerning young man took me to GT in Causeway Bay. I was lucky but that was the only way then. Nowadays is its important to decrypt web sites, full of superlatives which are so easy to create and then find salesmen who say anything but their prayers!

This last photo is here in error but seems reluctant to be deleted!

 

[geeboo]

#4919 - very good write-up.
I would be very interested to see the portraits in suits of yours. Pls point me to any link if posting new photos is causing inconveniences.