JM Weston appreciation thread

[JohnFM]

Sorry for the boring sizing question, but I am trying to decide which Golf pair to keep -- 8.5D or 9D. I could live with either -- the 8.5D is a little close up front (and just touches a toe or two) but the 9D has a little heel slip. Both are comfortable, with the 8.5 better suited for thick socks and the 9 for thick.

My question is whether the Golf will stretch and get much more relaxed and loose with time. I know it won't magically grow longer, but I wonder if the 8.5D will become more comfortable as I break it in, almost like a pair of slippers. The 9D is slightly more comfortable now and the heel slip isn't pronounced, but I'm wondering if this will change with time and wear.

I may try to add pictures later so you can see the V-gap on each, but the interesting thing is that the leather is somewhat different on the two pairs. The leather on the 8.5D is darker and looks smoother, shinier, and richer, like the black Golf in the picture above. The 9D is lighter toned and drier/duller looking. I don't know if the leathers are different or if it's just variations in the final treatment and polishing at the factory. The differences are minimal but a reminder that one pair of the same model can differ a little from another.

 

[AunToni]

This will be a little long. Apologize, but needed to vent and wanted to see what others thought about the "new" J.M. Weston.


I had been a loyal J.M. Weston customer for the past several years. I own 14 pairs of their shoes, countless belts, a large leather bag, and some smaller leather goods. Anyways, the point in highlighting these items are to note that I put a significant amount of money and trust into the company because a.) I believed in the quality of the products and b.) I believed in the direction of the company. However, that all changed once Michel Perry left. Enter Olivier Saillard, the current designer for J.M. Weston.
Now, it doesn't take a shoe experts to see that Olivier Saillard has zero design experience. If you take note of all the new models that have come out under his "reign," you'll see some of the most disappointing shoes at their price point. Not only this, but the quality is nowhere where it used to be. But, okay, this happens. Brands change over time and they can't keep everyone happy. I'm sure they are attracting "younger" clientele, especially with their emphasis on more "casual" shoes.
Although all of this is quite disappointing, what bothers me most about the brand is their attitude. They are arrogant and full of themselves. I live in China (I am not Chinese). When J.M. Weston closed their only store in China a few years ago, a store they had for maybe 8 or 9 years (don't quote me on that), they not only left, they completely cut off their customers who live in China. For example, the J.M. Weston website, when opened without using a VPN from within mainland China, the customer is met with an HTTP 404 error page. When I asked the company why they would deny their Chinese clientele access to their website, they repeatedly ignored me. I was getting frustrated and I decided to ask this question on their facebook page, under their posts. They repeatedly deleted the comments and eventually they blocked me from posting on their facebook. I don't really care that much about that, they are a business, I get it, they don't want their reputation spoiled.

To sum it up, I'm disappointed in this brand. I took a trip to New York last summer and tried on some of their new models, such as the Raphael (see attached picture). In all honesty, the shoe looked and felt "cheap." At least compared to my older Weston models. The design of the shoe is honestly quite bad.
Anyways, what are your thoughts on the direction Weston has taken?
Anyone have any recommendations for other brands to replace Weston? Personally, Weston was one of the few brands that carried a wider size in the store for nearly all of their shoes. This was a big plus for me. I also tend to like their longer, pointier lasts. I'm not really that into the English style. More into French or Italian style. If anyone has any not so well known brands they could recommend that would be wonderful.

Hope everyone who can is staying inside these days. Stay safe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_404

 

[AunToni]

Sorry for the boring sizing question, but I am trying to decide which Golf pair to keep -- 8.5D or 9D. I could live with either -- the 8.5D is a little close up front (and just touches a toe or two) but the 9D has a little heel slip. Both are comfortable, with the 8.5 better suited for thick socks and the 9 for thick.

My question is whether the Golf will stretch and get much more relaxed and loose with time. I know it won't magically grow longer, but I wonder if the 8.5D will become more comfortable as I break it in, almost like a pair of slippers. The 9D is slightly more comfortable now and the heel slip isn't pronounced, but I'm wondering if this will change with time and wear.

I may try to add pictures later so you can see the V-gap on each, but the interesting thing is that the leather is somewhat different on the two pairs. The leather on the 8.5D is darker and looks smoother, shinier, and richer, like the black Golf in the picture above. The 9D is lighter toned and drier/duller looking. I don't know if the leathers are different or if it's just variations in the final treatment and polishing at the factory. The differences are minimal but a reminder that one pair of the same model can differ a little from another.

Where did you buy them from? Online? Like Mr. Porter or something or from Weston? Weston's are known to be quite firm and take a while to wear in. If you are feeling a little heel slip though with the 9D, then I would suggest the 8.5 D. Will you be wearing thinner or thicker socks with these shoes? Also, if you bought from the company, is the D width your proper width? I wear, for the most part, size UK 8E, but I have a wide foot.

 

[JohnFM]

Thanks for your input AunToni. I bought the Golfs from JM Weston in New York. Daniel and Bob have been great to work with -- patient with sizing questions and striving for the right fit.

I'll likely wear the Golf with thicker socks and am currently leaning toward keeping the 9D rather than the 8.5D. For comparison, I'm a 10.5C in the Alden Barrie last. My foot is average, if slightly narrow with a high instep.

As you say, Westons are firm at first, so there is some break-in time. In addition, for a derby the Golf is cut fairly low (i.e., doesn't lace up high), so there is a tendency for heel slip at first. The main difference I notice between the two sizes is room in the toe box -- the 8.5D hugs my toes, while the 9D has room.

In some respects, the Golf is cut like a loafer and I've heard that it's made on the same last as the 180. Since it doesn't lace up high, sizing can be tricky relative to a higher lacing shoe or boot, where the laces do most of the work. If the Golf laced up higher, the 9D would be an easy choice. Because of the lower cut, the 8.5D is an option. Still, I can't quite get over its touching my toes up front. While the shoe will stretch in width, I'm guessing it won't stretch much or at all in length.

 

[AunToni]

Thanks for your input AunToni. I bought the Golfs from JM Weston in New York. Daniel and Bob have been great to work with -- patient with sizing questions and striving for the right fit.

I'll likely wear the Golf with thicker socks and am currently leaning toward keeping the 9D rather than the 8.5D. For comparison, I'm a 10.5C in the Alden Barrie last. My foot is average, if slightly narrow with a high instep.

As you say, Westons are firm at first, so there is some break-in time. In addition, for a derby the Golf is cut fairly low (i.e., doesn't lace up high), so there is a tendency for heel slip at first. The main difference I notice between the two sizes is room in the toe box -- the 8.5D hugs my toes, while the 9D has room.

In some respects, the Golf is cut like a loafer and I've heard that it's made on the same last as the 180. Since it doesn't lace up high, sizing can be tricky relative to a higher lacing shoe or boot, where the laces do most of the work. If the Golf laced up higher, the 9D would be an easy choice. Because of the lower cut, the 8.5D is an option. Still, I can't quite get over its touching my toes up front. While the shoe will stretch in width, I'm guessing it won't stretch much or at all in length.

To be honest, I could never wear the Golf because I have a high arch and short feet because of it. Therefore, the 180 and the Golf both make me look a bit odd because they are a bit "stubby." I'm about 180cm tall. Anyways, my point is that I'm not so familiar with this model, but I would question if the shoe is slipping with the 9D and if the 8.5D is too tight in the toe. Maybe this model isn't a good fit for you? But maybe someone more experienced with this model can speak to it.

I bought two pairs from NYC last summer. The staff was helpful. My plan was to buy a new model, but since I wasn't satisfied with any of J.M. Weston's new models, and since I think their MTO is a rip off, I ended up going with two models that I already have (see attached), just one was in a different color and the single monk strap I bought another pair in the same color, but my older one has developed a nice patina that the color looks quite different than the new one.

 

[JohnFM]

^ Nice AunToni. The Golf and 180 are so different -- I can see how they would appeal to you less, with their rounder toes and overall shape.

Regarding fit, I hear you regarding heel slip on the 9D and tight toes on the 8.5D. If only there were an 8.75D ;-)

 

[MaE]

This will be a little long. Apologize, but needed to vent and wanted to see what others thought about the "new" J.M. Weston.


I had been a loyal J.M. Weston customer for the past several years. I own 14 pairs of their shoes, countless belts, a large leather bag, and some smaller leather goods. Anyways, the point in highlighting these items are to note that I put a significant amount of money and trust into the company because a.) I believed in the quality of the products and b.) I believed in the direction of the company. However, that all changed once Michel Perry left. Enter Olivier Saillard, the current designer for J.M. Weston.
Now, it doesn't take a shoe experts to see that Olivier Saillard has zero design experience. If you take note of all the new models that have come out under his "reign," you'll see some of the most disappointing shoes at their price point. Not only this, but the quality is nowhere where it used to be. But, okay, this happens. Brands change over time and they can't keep everyone happy. I'm sure they are attracting "younger" clientele, especially with their emphasis on more "casual" shoes.
Although all of this is quite disappointing, what bothers me most about the brand is their attitude. They are arrogant and full of themselves. I live in China (I am not Chinese). When J.M. Weston closed their only store in China a few years ago, a store they had for maybe 8 or 9 years (don't quote me on that), they not only left, they completely cut off their customers who live in China. For example, the J.M. Weston website, when opened without using a VPN from within mainland China, the customer is met with an HTTP 404 error page. When I asked the company why they would deny their Chinese clientele access to their website, they repeatedly ignored me. I was getting frustrated and I decided to ask this question on their facebook page, under their posts. They repeatedly deleted the comments and eventually they blocked me from posting on their facebook. I don't really care that much about that, they are a business, I get it, they don't want their reputation spoiled.

To sum it up, I'm disappointed in this brand. I took a trip to New York last summer and tried on some of their new models, such as the Raphael (see attached picture). In all honesty, the shoe looked and felt "cheap." At least compared to my older Weston models. The design of the shoe is honestly quite bad.
Anyways, what are your thoughts on the direction Weston has taken?
Anyone have any recommendations for other brands to replace Weston? Personally, Weston was one of the few brands that carried a wider size in the store for nearly all of their shoes. This was a big plus for me. I also tend to like their longer, pointier lasts. I'm not really that into the English style. More into French or Italian style. If anyone has any not so well known brands they could recommend that would be wonderful.

Hope everyone who can is staying inside these days. Stay safe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_404

Hi AunToni,

Just my two cents about your post:

At Weston, I would never buy a pair of shoes that is not in their "Les Emblématiques" collection (180, Golf, Demi-Chasse, Chasse). These shoes have been produced for decades and decades and you most likely won't be disappointed regarding their quality and construction. The rest of their shoes mainly are newer/new designs (while a vast majority clearly aren't to my tastes, I have to admit that there are some quite appealing ones aswell) and altough I have never owned a pair of these, I have read that the quality isn't on the same level than on their more classic models.

I also have heard that their main focus is the markets where they sell a lot of shoes because their reputation is good (France, Japan and some cities where French is spoken like Geneva, Bruxelles, Casablanca) and aren't interested in expanding more since they can't sell more shoes simply because their production is limited. That might be an answer to your interrogations about Weston leaving China but I don't see why they don't want to admit it, don't reply to your e-mails and delete your Facebook posts?

Best,

MaE

 

[AunToni]

Hi AunToni,

Just my two cents about your post:

At Weston, I would never buy a pair of shoes that is not in their "Les Emblématiques" collection (180, Golf, Demi-Chasse, Chasse). These shoes have been produced for decades and decades and you most likely won't be disappointed regarding their quality and construction. The rest of their shoes mainly are newer/new designs (while a vast majority clearly aren't to my tastes, I have to admit that there are some quite appealing ones aswell) and altough I have never owned a pair of these, I have read that the quality isn't on the same level than on their more classic models.

I also have heard that their main focus is the markets where they sell a lot of shoes because their reputation is good (France, Japan and some cities where French is spoken like Geneva, Bruxelles, Casablanca) and aren't interested in expanding more since they can't sell more shoes simply because their production is limited. That might be an answer to your interrogations about Weston leaving China but I don't see why they don't want to admit it, don't reply to your e-mails and delete your Facebook posts?

Best,

MaE

Thanks for sharing your suggestions/ideas.

To be honest, I had spoken with someone I knew (won't reveal their position because they still work for the company) right after I was notified that Weston was leaving China, this was a few years ago, and they told me that the company was arrogant. They said Weston had been in China for many years, yet refused to do any kind of advertising to get their name out there and known to Chinese consumers. They just expected Chinese people to know who they are. They were unhappy that their sales had no "exploded" like they did in Japan. But, obviously, these countries are very different and to not understand the market you are in is just stupid.

Also, I think there is some truth to your comment about the "Great Classics" or "Icons" collection vs the newer models, but I think the Flore Collection and the Claridge Collection are wonderful, although up to this point they have nearly eliminated both collections, I assume because they were started under Michel Perry. All of the models made after Perry left are honestly quite boring and don't warrant the price, IMO.

I have a feeling that all their newest models will be gone in a few years, or less. What Weston really should have done, instead of introducing boring new shoes, they should have expanded color options for current models. In some ways they did, like with the 180 and they introduced new colors to their Chelsea boot, which, I would love to pick up because I have the brown ones and love them, but they make placing an order too complicated. I can't order online. I can't place the order with the NYC store because they told me they cannot ship internationally. This makes no sense to me. Anyways, for now, I'm more concerned with finding a way to ship my shoes back to Weston to be resoled or at the very least finding a good cobbler, be it in China or neighboring countries like Japan.

 

[comrade]

I agree with you. The non traditional Westons are undistinguished. as for the traditional
ones , only the 180 appeals to me. Never liked the Chasse, Demi- Chas or the Golf.
The Golf looks almost identical to the US Boy Scout Shoes of the 40s, 50s which were
available at the time for under $10.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-t7zzjxQmUw4/T6IowM51XKI/AAAAAAAAAS0/pkqXrxtubG8/s640/boyscoutshoes.jpg

 

[cetrio]

Triple semelle 590 & Chasse 677

 

[Stilig]

I'm selling my pair of JM Weston 180 in black crocodile in the Styleforum Buy & Sell section. I love these shoes, but sadly they're just a tad too big for me. Have a look if you're interested. I might be willing to drop the price somewhat if you're decisive. These need to be worn.

They are my first pair from JM Weston, but they definitely won't be my last.

 

[JohnFM]

Triple semelle 590 & Chasse 677

Those are incredibly beautiful. Are they both brown calfskin, as currently available? Relatively new or years old?

How do you like them in terms of fit, comfort, and weight?

 

[cetrio]

The leather of the 577 hunter derby is called "russia chêne".
Those are a vintage pair and the color is a bit darker than new models.
The leather of the 590 triple sole model is called "karagrain vert bronze" : this is a MTO I ordered because I really appreciate this leather : I have the 180 loafer in the limited edition "120 ans" with the same leather.
Fit and confort are perfect for me. The weight is heavier than simple sole shoes but nothing special compared to most of double sole model like Alden of Florsheim Imperial vintage LWB.

 

[JohnFM]

The leather of the 577 hunter derby is called "russia chêne".
Those are a vintage pair and the color is a bit darker than new models.
The leather of the 590 triple sole model is called "karagrain vert bronze" : this is a MTO I ordered because I really appreciate this leather : I have the 180 loafer in the limited edition "120 ans" with the same leather.
Fit and confort are perfect for me. The weight is heavier than simple sole shoes but nothing special compared to most of double sole model like Alden of Florsheim Imperial vintage LWB.

Thanks cetrio.

Regarding the Hunt Derby, the color you mention translates to 'Russian Oak', which sounds similar to the current leather color known as, 'Chestnut Brown Russian Finish Calfskin'. You're saying the vintage color is a bit darker than the new one. Could polishing over the years account for the difference?

Translated into English, the color of the 590 triple sole model is, 'Bronze Green Keragrain'. Not sure what Keragrain is, but what color are these shoes? I'm a little colorblind ;-) but they look slightly darker than the Hunt Derby. Beautiful regardless. Is this color still available?

 

[cetrio]

Yes, this is polishing over the years which made the difference.
There is only one leather called "russia" and two colors "chêne" (oak) or black.

You still can order the 590 with the same leather I chose.
But it's now really more expensive to do a MTO.
The color is really bronze : a dark kaki green with brown reflections on the sunlight.
Yes it's darker than the usual brown color of J.M. Weston shoes.