How do you roll? Untangle the Great Buttondown Collar Conspiracy!

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Apr 10, 2013.

Which collar roll is closest to the ideal?

Poll closed Apr 17, 2013.
  1. #1

    70 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. #2

    10 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. #3

    8 vote(s)
    5.0%
  4. #4

    49 vote(s)
    30.6%
  5. #5

    23 vote(s)
    14.4%
  1. dexconstruct

    dexconstruct Senior member

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  2. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    No multiple answers? I think both 1 and 4 are good. The same shirt might look like either depending on the tie, amount of starch, humidity etc.
     
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I don't understand why one cannot derive a more universal lesson from a specific context. Yes, the fame of the Brooks Brothers OCBD is very much steeped in historical context, yet it nonetheless resulted in a clear aesthetic. You can like that aesthetic, or not like it, regardless of context.

    At any rate, I agree that attitude is a silly distinction. If I had known everyone really meant "I'm digging his 'tude!" every time they were praising a collar roll, I would have written off their opinions to begin with. Pure absurdity. As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ugly, unlined, soft, floppy buttondown collars that just look plain awful, without knowing anything about the wearer's psychological state of mind.

    The truth is, there are distinguishable ways in which a buttondown collar rolls (ahem, as so artfully illustrated). In my experience, any given shirt's collar tends to roll a particular way. It may move a little bit here and there, but it doesn't fundamentally change with wear. It has to do with how the collar is cut, what fabric used, whether and how it is lined, the positioning of the buttons, etc. These are the sorts of things you'd discuss with your shirtmaker when trying to get the collar to roll the way you like.

    You don't tell him: just make sure it expresses my attitude.


    I said I wouldn't say anything until results were in, but in this case I will make my opinion known: that is awful. It is a terrible roll. Because there is none. And that's why I feel comfortable speaking on it now--it doesn't even count as a roll to judged.


    Uh oh. I think you're trying to mask a characterization of my motivation as a substantive comment. :)

    I don't think you're right about the charm of the Brooks Brothers collar. In fact, your own link below shows that Brooks Brothers itself chose to depict a specific type of roll in its marketing illustrations. I'm talking about where a tie is worn. I thought that went without say, but you really can't assess a collar roll when a shirt isn't worn or a tie isn't around the neck.

     
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Some of the differences are purposefully subtle. The point is to pick what's absolutely most ideal, even if it's a close call.
     
  5. Makoto Chan

    Makoto Chan Senior member

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    These aren't even pictures of clothes, they're abstract little doodles. It's like voting on "fit pics" of cartoon characters. "Homer Simpson's fit is ideal because you can see his shirt follows the contours of his body."
     
  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Oh jeezus.

    They are Platonic representations, yes. So what? I'm sure people can make the requisite calculations to accommodate immaterial deviations in real-life examples.
     
  7. Digmenow

    Digmenow Senior member

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    It's merely 'crisp'.
     
  8. burghler

    burghler Senior member

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    #4 for me. From what i can tell, it contours around the tie more closely than #1, almost imitating a pinned collar without the additional fuss
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    But a roll needs to roll to be a roll. I thought that was self-evident. Would you call a square a four-sided, equal-sided, right-angled "circle?"
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  10. Digmenow

    Digmenow Senior member

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    Rigidity in a collar roll thread? Unexpected contradiction. Oh well. Never mind, then.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  11. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    I think your poll will show that the differences between 1 and 4 (and to some degree 5) are too close to call. And what difference exists may be related to statistical bias rather than a legitimate result.
     
  12. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Interesting you feel that way about your Mercer shirt. I bought my first one a little less than a year ago. When my current order arrives in a couple of weeks, I'll be up to nine, which should indicate the esteem in which I hold them. I notice that I do seem to get far more compliments about my appearance when wearing Mercer shirts than with my other BDs. (Except for very dressy occasions, I almost always wear a BD.)
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    Don't get me wrong, the shirt is great in every other respect, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. It just doesn't roll on me. At all. I've seen how good Mercers can look on others.
     
  14. ShoutOutsFoMyBo

    ShoutOutsFoMyBo Senior member

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    My gut said #4 initially, but something about #5 is really appealing. In fact, if I could change my vote I'd go for 5. It seems like the most confident, relaxed roll, if that makes any sense. Partly this has to do with the exposedtie, but in real life each of the other rolls would probably expose a little bit of tie as well, so who knows.
     
  15. Augustus D

    Augustus D Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013

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