Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures)

[mimo]

I didn't get any hint that they would wind down bespoke: that's a defining, premium product with a price to match, and key to their status. It seems to me that they just want to ease out the cheaper option of MTO that takes some of the same hassle, but without the margin to justify it.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

It's been said plenty of times by plenty of people now: G&G are NOT cutting down on the bespoke part.

 

[laufer]



It's been said plenty of times by plenty of people now: G&G are NOT cutting down on the bespoke part.

This needs to be repeated. People please stop spreading disinformation.

 

[VRaivio]

Jesper, how long did Shoji work at G&G? Do you know what areas of shoemaking he worked with? From what I've seen, he is the most talented cordwainer of our era. That is, I haven't seen finer finished pairs from any other maker out there.

 

[j ingevaldsson]



Jesper, how long did Shoji work at G&G? Do you know what areas of shoemaking he worked with? From what I've seen, he is the most talented cordwainer of our era. That is, I haven't seen finer finished pairs from any other maker out there.

He worked for them a couple of years or so. Think he only did the making, so lasts and uppers were sent to him in Japan. Now they only have one freelance maker a couple of miles from Kettering, and Hervé Brunelle doing some lasts and the bespoke trees, everything else is done by Daniel and Tony ATM, with some help from the two apprentices.

Shoji is really high standard yes, and from what I've been told (never seen a pair IRL myself) he is one of those that also does shoes that can really take an extremely close inspection as well, not just eye candy for Tumblr-pics.

 

[PCK1]

I don't think they are cutting back on MTO's either...the prices are just going up for them...as they have also gone up for their stock RTW...

C&J is a huge factory...and they are actively working to increase their MTO's as well as their RTW

 

[j ingevaldsson]



I don't think they are cutting back on MTO's either...the prices are just going up for them...as they have also gone up for their stock RTW...

C&J is a huge factory...and they are actively working to increase their MTO's as well as their RTW

Nah, that's not correct. The price increase is indeed a way to steer of from MTO-orders and more RTW, since, as mentioned by others, they want to increase the output and produce more shoes more efficient. RTW prices increased as regularly every year, but MTO became much more expensive, and they also included that you have to buy the expensive lasted trees with MTO.

G&G is a teeny tiny factory compared to most other that's left in Northampton. They produce roughly 3000 pairs a year. As a comparison, Loake and Church's make around 4000-4500 pairs - a week. C&J around 3500 per week. Even with the new factory and a small increase of staff they still won't produce many shoes at all, by comparison.

And C&J pretty much abandoned individual MTOs since some years back. They start to try to increase the shop-MTOs though, which is large orders of "special shop models" with shop logos and stuff, which C&J can charge extra for and still keep a pretty decent flow in the factory. But those are still just a small, small part of the whole production.

 

[PCK1]

Nah, that's not correct. The price increase is indeed a way to steer of from MTO-orders and more RTW, since, as mentioned by others, they want to increase the output and produce more shoes more efficient. RTW prices increased as regularly every year, but MTO became much more expensive, and they also included that you have to buy the expensive lasted trees with MTO.

G&G is a teeny tiny factory compared to most other that's left in Northampton. They produce roughly 3000 pairs a year. As a comparison, Loake and Church's make around 4000-4500 pairs - a week. C&J around 3500 per week. Even with the new factory and a small increase of staff they still won't produce many shoes at all, by comparison.

And C&J pretty much abandoned individual MTOs since some years back. They start to try to increase the shop-MTOs though, which is large orders of "special shop models" with shop logos and stuff, which C&J can charge extra for and still keep a pretty decent flow in the factory. But those are still just a small, small part of the whole production.

That is false as I have done individual MTO's through C&J and their NYC manager has told me that they are working on expanding this aspect of their core business...and that it is steadily expanding.

Just last weekend I was in C&J NYC and they told me that they had placed 14 individual MTO's during the last week...it's not a ton...but relative to other companies...its a good flow.


G&G isn't trying to shy away from MTO's...if they can get them...they will take them. It has just become more costly for them to produce MTO's...hence the price increases...

To say that G&G doesn't want to do MTO's anymore and that is why they increased prices is...frankly...nonsensical. A small company, especially, is not turning down business when they can get it....their costs have gone up for MTO's (i.e., costs of skilled laborers, time, increased cost of new factory space, equipment, etc.)...hence prices have gone up.

Also, it is not to be discounted that the GDP is up significantly!! Over 10% in the last year...which is another reason for large price increases on the part of all British makers.

Also, for your knowledge...you have to buy the trees with RTW now too going forward.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

That is false as I have done individual MTO's through C&J and their NYC manager has told me that they are working on expanding this aspect of their core business...and that it is steadily expanding.

Just last weekend I was in C&J NYC and they told me that they had placed 14 individual MTO's during the last week...it's not a ton...but relative to other companies...its a good flow.


G&G isn't trying to shy away from MTO's...if they can get them...they will take them. It has just become more costly for them to produce MTO's...hence the price increases...

To say that G&G doesn't want to do MTO's anymore and that is why they increased prices is...frankly...nonsensical. A small company, especially, is not turning down business when they can get it....their costs have gone up for MTO's (i.e., costs of skilled laborers, time, increased cost of new factory space, equipment, etc.)...hence prices have gone up.

Also, it is not to be discounted that the GDP is up significantly!! Over 10% in the last year...which is another reason for large price increases on the part of all British makers.

Also, for your knowledge...you have to buy the trees with RTW now too going forward.

Ok, that's great if C&J start to go for individual MTO:s again. As I said, they more or less abandoned it some years ago, not promoting it at all, huge cost to do them and so on. Since they have had a huge back log of orders the recent years, where they had to turn down web stores and focus on the physical retailers just to be able to deliver ordered RTW-stock, it seems odd to me that they already catched up and turned the momentum so much that they feel that they want to do more single MTO:s. But if so, great.

No offense, but I trust people working at G&G more than your own calculations and speculations. They want to have less MTO, to be able to produce more RTW. They will make more shoes, sell more shoes, earn more money this way (everything is relative here, it's not like G&G is making people rich). That's what they are aiming at. Of course they will still do MTO:s, but the calculation is that they will decrease, so that they can make more RTW.

But you're right about the trees. Only that Skoaktiebolaget here in Sweden don't sell them with the G&G trees, they still sell them without.

 

[PCK1]

You speak as if you have spoken with G&G employees directly...and they told you this information...if so...lets see some quotes from them...because as far as I can tell...you are calculating just as much as I am...

 

[j ingevaldsson]

You speak as if you have spoken with G&G employees directly...and they told you this information...if so...lets see some quotes from them...because as far as I can tell...you are calculating just as much as I am...

Yes, exactly. I'm not going to bother with giving you quotes. If you don't trust what I'm saying, that's just fine.

 

[Frank the sheep]



You speak as if you have spoken with G&G employees directly...and they told you this information...if so...lets see some quotes from them...because as far as I can tell...you are calculating just as much as I am...

Don't know why Ingevaldsson needs quotes. I talked with Nick from BE in person about this and he told me the same thing. Then Daniel at GG us swedish and Ingevaldsson have the biggest shoe blog in sweden...

 

[dlind]

That is false as I have done individual MTO's through C&J and their NYC manager has told me that they are working on expanding this aspect of their core business...and that it is steadily expanding.

Just last weekend I was in C&J NYC and they told me that they had placed 14 individual MTO's during the last week...it's not a ton...but relative to other companies...its a good flow.


G&G isn't trying to shy away from MTO's...if they can get them...they will take them. It has just become more costly for them to produce MTO's...hence the price increases...

To say that G&G doesn't want to do MTO's anymore and that is why they increased prices is...frankly...nonsensical. A small company, especially, is not turning down business when they can get it....their costs have gone up for MTO's (i.e., costs of skilled laborers, time, increased cost of new factory space, equipment, etc.)...hence prices have gone up.

Also, it is not to be discounted that the GDP is up significantly!! Over 10% in the last year...which is another reason for large price increases on the part of all British makers.

Also, for your knowledge...you have to buy the trees with RTW now too going forward.

No matter how you look at it MTO have had a disproportionate increase compared to RTW which supports the theory that they want less MTO's or at least get adequate compensation for it. As far as supply chain and production line theory is concerned, it's a pretty clear case of being able to streamline production by decreasing their MTO operation and hence improving profit margins. I for one hope that in the future this may enable G&G to offer more widths as RTW even though this is unlikely... Also it's not so much about G&G saying that they won't take MTO's because as you say, there is no reason to say no to business, but it makes more sense for them to focus on RTW as they will certainly have higher profit margins there.

 

[chogall]



You speak as if you have spoken with G&G employees directly...and they told you this information...if so...lets see some quotes from them...because as far as I can tell...you are calculating just as much as I am...

Doesn't take much to learn about utilization, yield, and throughout. Owning a factory is very expensive and they need to fill it.

It's vastly different from years back when they use AS as OEM and let AS bare the cost of operation.

He worked for them a couple of years or so. Think he only did the making, so lasts and uppers were sent to him in Japan. Now they only have one freelance maker a couple of miles from Kettering, and Hervé Brunelle doing some lasts and the bespoke trees, everything else is done by Daniel and Tony ATM, with some help from the two apprentices.

Shoji is really high standard yes, and from what I've been told (never seen a pair IRL myself) he is one of those that also does shoes that can really take an extremely close inspection as well, not just eye candy for Tumblr-pics.

Shoji used to work with/for P Wilson doing outsourced work for both Lobbs strictly as a maker. P Wilson taught quite a few shoemakers at London, including Dean.

 

[armsignet]

New Sinatras! Now I know what Wordsworth meant when he wrote, "My heart leaps up when I behold...."

One concern though - there is a small blemish as received at the topline. The leather looks to be separated above the stitch line. I would appreciate thoughts on whether this will get worse with wear of putting on the shoe and taking it off?

I might overlook it on another shoe, but a black wholecut with almost no embellishing really brings out the flaw. I cannot find this shoe RTW anywhere else currently in my size, so should I live with it rather than return the shoe and take a price hit and suffer the lead time on MTO?