Professional Wrestling

My roomates and I all really enjoy wrestling becuase it's a totally stripped down narrative that doesn't require too much work to unpack and examine. Monday nights we usually get baked and sit around talking about why the writers chose to go in a particular direction. We're all TV/Media nerds though.

Originally Posted by Slopho

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This is crazy. You don't think there's a place for Tajiri, New Jack or Sandman in today's wrestling?

No, I don't. Tajiri is a pretty good, though not great in-ring talent, who can't work the mic. Not really all the familiar with New Jack. Sandman has an interesting charisma, but is awful in the ring and on the mic.

If those guys are taking away ring time from guys like Samoa Joe, Pope, Mr. Anderson....Anderson, Kazarian, AJ Styles, and on and on, then they need to go. TNA has too much young talent to let these people eff it up. Hopefully Bischoff has learned his lesson from his time in WCW where this exact thing happened. He had guys like Billy Kidman, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero, and he let the fester and waste until they left all so that he could give ring time for the x-th iteration of nWo.

Originally Posted by GraphicNovelty

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My roomates and I all really enjoy wrestling becuase it's a totally stripped down narrative that doesn't require too much work to unpack and examine. Monday nights we usually get baked and sit around talking about why the writers chose to go in a particular direction. We're all TV/Media nerds though.

I miss such activity. Such is the burden of becoming old and responsible.

Originally Posted by Biggskip

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Eh, can't say that I'm surprised given who's running the show over there (Bischoff). To have that be your main event at a PPV is pretty inexcusable, however.


Doesn't have to do with booking, Hardy was drugged up as usual. The question is why they let him out to do the match, Sting was pissed and did an audible to end the match because Hardy was just fucked out of his brain.

Originally Posted by RFX45

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Doesn't have to do with booking, Hardy was drugged up as usual. The question is why they let him out to do the match, Sting was pissed and did an audible to end the match because Hardy was just fucked out of his brain.

Bischoff

A smarter man would have had Mr. Anderson...Anderson beat up Hardy backstage as part of the angle that he was upset about not getting his rematch. Then you could work some angle where Sting fights somebody who didn't work the PPV for a five to ten minute match.

in the video it was pretty obvious while bischoff was doing his spiel he was also coaching sting, hardy and the ref on what to do. I don't like what bischoff and hogan are doing to tna, I think if they just kept on pushing the originals, then mix with a few chosen former wwe vets then things would be better for them, but under that ppv's circumstances I think whoever decided the match to continue and end that way was right. it was the main event and changing that at the last minute would've caused more damage to their already fucked up product.

Originally Posted by Slopho

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This is crazy. You don't think there's a place for Tajiri, New Jack or Sandman in today's wrestling?

New Jack and Sandman are a relic from an era that pro wrestling, on a national level, has (thankfully) moved away from. They were awful wrestlers from a conventional perspective. Their appeal was essentially limited to how many crazy stunts they could fit in between the bells.

Look, I was a teenager when ECW was really hitting its stride, so of course the hardcore style appealed to me. I loved seeing New Jack set up a stack of tables and then jumping through them. I loved seeing Sandman whack the **** out of someone with the Kendo stick.

But all of that encompassed a style of "wrestling" that really wasn't sustainable; not for the participants' bodies and not for the viewers. You reach a point as a viewer where you've become so desensitized to a guy getting powerbombed through a table that the wrestlers have to up the ante to something like powerbombing a guy through a stack of tables. That style, while appealing in small doses, has a low ceiling in terms of sustainability.

The actual wrestling from ECW's "golden age" is still enjoyable. But the garbage-style has not aged well at all.

Originally Posted by RFX45

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Doesn't have to do with booking, Hardy was drugged up as usual. The question is why they let him out to do the match, Sting was pissed and did an audible to end the match because Hardy was just fucked out of his brain.
I think Dixie Carter is a huge Jeff Hardy mark. Whoever let him out there was IMO trying to open Dixie's eyes. They threw the PPV to get Jeff's head on the chopping block. I don't think it worked, though. He seems to have only been sent home from the next month of tapings. He'll probably end up in the big house before TNA give him the flick.

I think it's interesting that this is basically the second time he's thrown his career away. Several years ago, he basically lost interest in wrestling and was out completely for a year or two.

Too bad for him, on the other hand, maybe now we can have a Sting vs. Mr. Anderson...Anderson run.

A lot has happened the in the past few weeks. Anybody have thoughts on Wrestlemania XXVII?

UT vs. HHH - About what I expected. The match was very slow and in the end UT continued "The Streak" with a lame submission maneuver that is supposed to be a bad impression of a triangle choke. The next night on RAW Cole told the "Cole-Miners" (I love this, btw) that he would like to go "Streak vs. Streak" next year at Wrestlemania XXVIII.

And speaking of WM XXVIII we have already established the main event as The Rock has accepted John Cena's challenge.

Not sure what WWE is going to do to bring the older hard core fans around to liking Cena. Why so much hate to begin with?

^

Originally Posted by Biggskip

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No, I don't. Tajiri is a pretty good, though not great in-ring talent, who can't work the mic. Not really all the familiar with New Jack. Sandman has an interesting charisma, but is awful in the ring and on the mic.

Originally Posted by APK

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New Jack and Sandman are a relic from an era that pro wrestling, on a national level, has (thankfully) moved away from. They were awful wrestlers from a conventional perspective. Their appeal was essentially limited to how many crazy stunts they could fit in between the bells.

Look, I was a teenager when ECW was really hitting its stride, so of course the hardcore style appealed to me. I loved seeing New Jack set up a stack of tables and then jumping through them. I loved seeing Sandman whack the **** out of someone with the Kendo stick.

But all of that encompassed a style of "wrestling" that really wasn't sustainable; not for the participants' bodies and not for the viewers. You reach a point as a viewer where you've become so desensitized to a guy getting powerbombed through a table that the wrestlers have to up the ante to something like powerbombing a guy through a stack of tables. That style, while appealing in small doses, has a low ceiling in terms of sustainability.

The actual wrestling from ECW's "golden age" is still enjoyable. But the garbage-style has not aged well at all.

What?? guys!! Devon, GET THE TABLES!!!! I'm not sure if anyone remember the time New Jack jumped off of a balcony at an ECW show and went blind for a few days. Them times was crazy!!

Long live SABU!!

Originally Posted by Biggskip

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A lot has happened the in the past few weeks. Anybody have thoughts on Wrestlemania XXVII?

UT vs. HHH - About what I expected. The match was very slow and in the end UT continued "The Streak" with a lame submission maneuver that is supposed to be a bad impression of a triangle choke. The next night on RAW Cole told the "Cole-Miners" (I love this, btw) that he would like to go "Streak vs. Streak" next year at Wrestlemania XXVIII.

And speaking of WM XXVIII we have already established the main event as The Rock has accepted John Cena's challenge.

Not sure what WWE is going to do to bring the older hard core fans around to liking Cena. Why so much hate to begin with?

The only highlights of WM for me were:

The Lawler/Cole match. Anything that involves Stone Cold is gold to me. Plus, I enjoyed watching Cole squirm and get his ass handed to him. Not happy about the ridiculous anonymous Raw GM overturning the win (I hope they end this anonymous GM crap soon).

The only reason I remotely enjoyed the 6 person inter-gender tag match was for Trish Stratus (loved her since she first debuted on Sunday Night Heat).

The Undertaker/Triple H match: I liked it. It wasn't as brutal as their match at WM 17, but it was good nonetheless (it was worth paying for the PPV). The Undertaker is my all time favorite, but I just don't see him going much longer. I could see him retiring after 20-0. As the match neared the end, I seriously thought Triple H was going to end the streak (he's the only wrestler currently in the WWE that I feel is worthy enough to be the one to end the streak). But nope, he applied Hell's Gate and won.

Randy Orton/CM Punk: Besides the Undertaker and Triple H, Orton is the only wrestler currently on the roster that I really like. I thought it was a decent match, he did get dominated throughout it, but prevailed in the end.

As far as Cena/Miz goes. The only highlight for me was The Rock coming out at the end and giving Cena The Rock Bottom and then planting the People's Elbow into Miz. I used to like Cena, especially when he first started out and was a heel. But as time has gone on, I find myself getting easily irritated with him. I think a lot of it has to do with the PG-Era and he is the poster boy of it. I think the Attitude Era was the greatest era. It was no holds barred, cussing, middle fingers, beer drinking, T-n-A, and they weren't afraid to show blood. Also, they had PPV quality matches on Raw and Smackdown. The majority of the matches on both shows aren't exactly the greatest, and I catch myself either changing the channel at times or hitting the mute button (the majority of Cole's commentary alone makes me do that).

Now I understand Vince changed it because Linda was sitting on an education board and planning to run for a Senate seat and eventually did run (and lost) so he had to clean it up to please the masses. I do think in some respects that they've been letting some wrestlers get a little more aggressive. Miz jumping Cena the past few weeks leading up to WM and of course Orton can get brutal (which is one of the reasons I like him, he reminds me of the Attitude era). I would like to see them shift more back to how it used to be, but I don't think that will happen. I continue to watch because I find it entertaining and the Undertaker, Orton, and Triple H are still there so I'll watch to see them. And having the Rock face Cena at WM28 (which sealed the deal for me to buy it next year), will no doubt have The Rock popping up more often throughout the year.

I'd love for Cole to face UT at WM28, streak against streak. It would be laugh worthy to see Cole try and take on The Dead Man.


I had a lot of hope for TNA; they have a good roster of talent on their brand but they're going downhill very fast. Of course I blame Hogan and Bischoff. They didn't learn from their mistakes at WCW and are basically repeating what happened over there. The writing is horrible (thank you, Vince Russo). They've tried to recreat the NWO with Immortal, which was a mistake. They attempted to start back the Monday Night Wars by initially moving Impact from Thursdays to Mondays and were easily decimated by Raw and had to move back to Thursdays. And that last PPV match with Sting and Hardy was down right embarrassing.

I don't see undertaker going beyond next year's wm.. he has been practically in and out of circulation the past year, and mark or not, the conclusion of the match where they had to wheel him out is an indication of some changes with regards to that character. although it did occur to me that once he's gone its gonna take a long while before someone can be as comparable.

I grew up in an apartment complex with the Iron Sheik and Ivan Koloff. Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell from the Boston Celtics also lived there in the offseason. I used to play pickup basketball with them and whenever Cornbread and Ivan were on the same team I'd dog them by calling them "Corn-Bear"

Originally Posted by Anthony K

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The only highlights of WM for me were:

The Lawler/Cole match. Anything that involves Stone Cold is gold to me. Plus, I enjoyed watching Cole squirm and get his ass handed to him. Not happy about the ridiculous anonymous Raw GM overturning the win (I hope they end this anonymous GM crap soon).

The only reason I remotely enjoyed the 6 person inter-gender tag match was for Trish Stratus (loved her since she first debuted on Sunday Night Heat).

The Undertaker/Triple H match: I liked it. It wasn't as brutal as their match at WM 17, but it was good nonetheless (it was worth paying for the PPV). The Undertaker is my all time favorite, but I just don't see him going much longer. I could see him retiring after 20-0. As the match neared the end, I seriously thought Triple H was going to end the streak (he's the only wrestler currently in the WWE that I feel is worthy enough to be the one to end the streak). But nope, he applied Hell's Gate and won.

Randy Orton/CM Punk: Besides the Undertaker and Triple H, Orton is the only wrestler currently on the roster that I really like. I thought it was a decent match, he did get dominated throughout it, but prevailed in the end.

As far as Cena/Miz goes. The only highlight for me was The Rock coming out at the end and giving Cena The Rock Bottom and then planting the People's Elbow into Miz. I used to like Cena, especially when he first started out and was a heel. But as time has gone on, I find myself getting easily irritated with him. I think a lot of it has to do with the PG-Era and he is the poster boy of it. I think the Attitude Era was the greatest era. It was no holds barred, cussing, middle fingers, beer drinking, T-n-A, and they weren't afraid to show blood. Also, they had PPV quality matches on Raw and Smackdown. The majority of the matches on both shows aren't exactly the greatest, and I catch myself either changing the channel at times or hitting the mute button (the majority of Cole's commentary alone makes me do that).

Now I understand Vince changed it because Linda was sitting on an education board and planning to run for a Senate seat and eventually did run (and lost) so he had to clean it up to please the masses. I do think in some respects that they've been letting some wrestlers get a little more aggressive. Miz jumping Cena the past few weeks leading up to WM and of course Orton can get brutal (which is one of the reasons I like him, he reminds me of the Attitude era). I would like to see them shift more back to how it used to be, but I don't think that will happen. I continue to watch because I find it entertaining and the Undertaker, Orton, and Triple H are still there so I'll watch to see them. And having the Rock face Cena at WM28 (which sealed the deal for me to buy it next year), will no doubt have The Rock popping up more often throughout the year.

I'd love for Cole to face UT at WM28, streak against streak. It would be laugh worthy to see Cole try and take on The Dead Man.


I had a lot of hope for TNA; they have a good roster of talent on their brand but they're going downhill very fast. Of course I blame Hogan and Bischoff. They didn't learn from their mistakes at WCW and are basically repeating what happened over there. The writing is horrible (thank you, Vince Russo). They've tried to recreat the NWO with Immortal, which was a mistake. They attempted to start back the Monday Night Wars by initially moving Impact from Thursdays to Mondays and were easily decimated by Raw and had to move back to Thursdays. And that last PPV match with Sting and Hardy was down right embarrassing.

Michael Cole might be the best heel in the industry. I know that he's worked hard over the years to become the play by play guy for RAW, but I legitimately believe that he could be an excellent manager. The whole bit where he has his own announcer booth to protect him and the "...and I quote" are really really good. I hate him more for loving "The Miz" more than I hate "The Miz"

Regarding your point about Vince changing the image of the company for the benefit of his wife's ambitions, I think there is more too it than that. I think that Vince realizes that the needed to tone it down in order to bring the kids back. If you think back to what RAW had become a few years ago, it was pretty bad. You had Bischoff coming about the teasing everybody that there was gonna be HLA (hot lesbian action), the language was getting pretty blue, and the violence was at an all time high. While that might be a product that you and I like to watch, it's certainly not a product that we'd let our ten year old sons watch. Vince knows that the key to long term success is the get 'em hooked early. Hell, Saturday Night Main Event, is the sole reason I watch today.

Originally Posted by acidboy

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I don't see undertaker going beyond next year's wm.. he has been practically in and out of circulation the past year, and mark or not, the conclusion of the match where they had to wheel him out is an indication of some changes with regards to that character. although it did occur to me that once he's gone its gonna take a long while before someone can be as comparable.

I agree with you both regarding UT. I think he hangs it up after next year. Have him go out 20-0 and let that stand like Joe D's 56 game hitting streak. I can remember when ten years ago my buddy and I used to joke that he was getting pretty old. At one point it looked like he was going to have to abandon "The Last Rise" and switch to using the Heart Punch as a finishing move.