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The Teacher Thread

CBrown85

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Originally Posted by KenRose
no, just the PE dept. Up here in Alberta they split the PE department head and Athletic Director duties. To do a good job at both you need two people.

Sometimes three.
 

itsstillmatt

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Originally Posted by foodguy
they do get touchy about being lectured to. i've got a friend who is a retired headmaster of a pretty prominent private school down here and he gets pretty apoplectic about "civilians" and their ideas about education. i have pretty definite ideas about education, but to an extent, I see his point. education is one of the few fields where you get can advanced degrees and spend your whole life working in it and still be talked down to by someone who never got out of high school, just because her kid is in your class.
I actually try really hard to keep my opinions on education out of any discussion with professionals, and on boards I try to convince other board members that just because they can shell out 100k a year to sit on a board doesn't mean that they know anything about the subject. That said, my wife has more education and expertise than almost any principal, and my mother has two Ph.Ds in education related fields, and mentored an entire generation of special educators in Northern California, and still, teachers generally have very little interest in listening to what they have to say about how to better educate individual children. Look, I don't think teachers are inherently worse than politicians, hedge fund managers, firemen, lawyers or chefs. I just don't see any reason to believe they are any better either. The problem is that at least two, maybe three, of those professions have built an aura of goodness and use it to further their own interests. I think it is BS, and when you break it down, the clay from which all of these people are built is just about the same. I respect people like cbrown who seem to really care about education, and I think kids need them. There are others in this thread who appear, at least to me, to be nothing more than know it alls basking in the fake golden aura of their own goodness. I don't doubt the good stories I hear in other posts in this thread, but I can tell you that in the time I have been involved in the field, I have seen as much bad as good, and perhaps a lot more.
 

Bhowie

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Wife and I have been talking about a lot of this stuff lately. She thinks that one of the biggest problems in her school is pockets of teachers who are resistant to change. She told me some of the other teachers still use worksheets they typed up on a typewriter XX number of years ago. I think she used the line "no group of students is ever the same, so how could all of your classroom material be exactly the same for 2-3 years." She doesn't seek to reinvent the wheel every year, but you really need to evaluate on a weekly basis your approach and its effectiveness.

The biggest insurmountable problem for her has been all the extra bullshit the kids face outside of class. How can you teach a kid math if one of their family members was killed in some violent act, or some other nonsense? She isn’t a counselor; some of them don’t even want help. So she just has to do the best she can in the classroom and outside of the normal classroom time to teach them.

I think she once told me she had a 16 year old kid who was the head of the MS-13 chapter for the area she teaches in, and the FBI came looking for him. These kids don’t bust her chops it’s the other normal kids who are bigger distractions and more difficult to work with.
 

Rambo

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Originally Posted by iammatt
There are others in this thread who appear, at least to me, to be nothing more than know it alls basking in the fake golden aura of their own goodness. I don't doubt the good stories I hear in other posts in this thread, but I can tell you that in the time I have been involved in the field, I have seen as much bad as good, and perhaps a lot more.
I certainly hope you don't think I'm some sort of education know-it-all. I'm just somebody who's spent quite a bit of time observing the educational system from the outside in. Also, I definitely agree with the last sentence.
Originally Posted by Bhowie
Wife and I have been talking about a lot of this stuff lately. She thinks that one of the biggest problems in her school is pockets of teachers who are resistant to change. She told me some of the other teachers still use worksheets they typed up on a typewriter XX number of years ago. I think she used the line "no group of students is ever the same, so how could all of your classroom material be exactly the same for 2-3 years." She doesn't seek to reinvent the wheel every year, but you really need to evaluate on a weekly basis your approach and its effectiveness. The biggest insurmountable problem for her has been all the extra bullshit the kids face outside of class. How can you teach a kid math if one of their family members was killed in some violent act, or some other nonsense? She isn't a counselor; some of them don't even want help. So she just has to do the best she can in the classroom and outside of the normal classroom time to teach them. I think she once told me she had a 16 year old kid who was the head of the MS-13 chapter for the area she teaches in, and the FBI came looking for him. These kids don't bust her chops it's the other normal kids who are bigger distractions and more difficult to work with.
Have you shown the wife season 4 of The Wire yet? It should be mandatory watching for teachers in inner city schools. The person I take care of once had a child who didn't get picked up from school in the evening. When she asked her where her mother was the kid replied "My mommy died yesterday. I didn't have nowhere else to go so I came to school today." Imagine hearing that from a 7yr old. Some of these poor ******* kids.
 

KenRose

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I hear you on the resistance. Not excusing teachers for shutting someone down without listening first but I have another point of view which may shed some light. In early January I met with a specialist employed with my board who doesn't teach, but is an "expert" and advises. Her area of specialty is with kids who have vision impairment and I have one girl coming into our program who is legally blind, who was also at the meeting as I was looking at how to integrate this kid into the PE program in order to meet the requirements of PE 10 (which is needed for a high school diploma in Alberta). Now this specialist was bringing up all these possibilities like Goalball (handball for the blind) and ringing t balls (in place of softball) and was suggesting that we make all the kids do it. What she was not picking up on was the extreme body language of this visually impaired 16 yr old girl who just wanted to "fit in" and be like everyone else. Now, the specialist's ideas were good ones but she completely missed looking at what is best for this kid and what actually works in the classroom. I sat down with the kid after the meeting and talked about what she wanted to do and what she was good at. Together we came up with module choices that she could participate in with very little modification, and encouraged her to push her comfort level with one or two choices. So far she's doing very well. We often have these AISI specialists come to the school and run seminars on things that we should be doing, but the problem that I have when I hear this is while we are spending so much time "evaluating", who is doing the teaching? Agreed that there are many teachers who are not putting in their best effort. But I think that there are far more that put in their best effort and (like other professions) the ****** ones tend to get noticed more.
Originally Posted by iammatt
I actually try really hard to keep my opinions on education out of any discussion with professionals, and on boards I try to convince other board members that just because they can shell out 100k a year to sit on a board doesn't mean that they know anything about the subject. That said, my wife has more education and expertise than almost any principal, and my mother has two Ph.Ds in education related fields, and mentored an entire generation of special educators in Northern California, and still, teachers generally have very little interest in listening to what they have to say about how to better educate individual children. Look, I don't think teachers are inherently worse than politicians, hedge fund managers, firemen, lawyers or chefs. I just don't see any reason to believe they are any better either. The problem is that at least two, maybe three, of those professions have built an aura of goodness and use it to further their own interests. I think it is BS, and when you break it down, the clay from which all of these people are built is just about the same. I respect people like cbrown who seem to really care about education, and I think kids need them. There are others in this thread who appear, at least to me, to be nothing more than know it alls basking in the fake golden aura of their own goodness. I don't doubt the good stories I hear in other posts in this thread, but I can tell you that in the time I have been involved in the field, I have seen as much bad as good, and perhaps a lot more.
 

itsstillmatt

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^ This isn't the kind of thing I am talking about. Not trying to be abrupt or anything, and I can see how that would be annoying.
 

KenRose

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Love the Wire and especially season 4. What I think needs to be taken out of that season is that each kid is an individual. It would be easy for someone to get a general (and most likely bad) opinion of a kid like Namond, but when you actually talk to the kids and get to know them you see that they are quite unlike how they present themselves.
I'm no superstar but I do take pride on the fact that kids come and talk to me all the time; I don't think it's wrong at all to afraid to let the kids "like" you. Too many teachers say "I'm not here to be liked, I'm here to teach you". Well, thats a pile of ****. It may work for football or the military but it's pretty hard to teach a kid who hates you because you're a prick. Also, I have had maybe 10 discipline problems in 20 years and they usually resolve themselves without going to another level because I try to treat each kid with respect.
Sorry for the sermon, just thinking about lessons from Season Four

Originally Posted by Rambo
Have you shown the wife season 4 of The Wire yet? It should be mandatory watching for teachers in inner city schools.
 

FtRoyalty

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Has anyone seen Waiting for Superman? It's up in my Netflix queue.

Side question related to the film: Does anyone have any experience with charter schools? I get the impression the film paints a very rosy picture of them, but I'm curious if this is an accurate protrayal. At face value, charters seem to take the best of public and private educations. However, like any school or company, I'm sure there are poorly managed charter schools too.
 

KenRose

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Yea, its tough sometimes to try and interpret posts. In fact, it probably wasn't too professional of me to post that experience. But what I was meaning to say is that for me only, I usually take people who come in to help us with a bit of a grain of salt. Some are quite helpful, but most are similar to what I've described. Now, our situation in Canada may be different from what your wife faced in California. But I'm just curious if some of the wrongful ignorance shown to her was because some before her came in and lectured on what teachers should be doing.
I don't know. Part of me wants to know exactly what your wife tried to offer and part of me is afraid of hearing about the experience that she had. I truly believe that the hard working teachers are a silent majority but it drives me nuts when the poor ones make us all look bad.
It was quite sad to hear that Scott Brown had suffered abuse as a child but I was happy to hear that he credited a teacher among others for getting through his experiences.
Originally Posted by iammatt
^ This isn't the kind of thing I am talking about. Not trying to be abrupt or anything, and I can see how that would be annoying.
 

dfagdfsh

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this is a really interesting thread. does anyone have any experience teaching college level? I'm entering an MA/PHD program next year and will be teaching by my second semester, and I'm having some definite anxiety about the experience.
 

CBrown85

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Originally Posted by KenRose
Love the Wire and especially season 4. What I think needs to be taken out of that season is that each kid is an individual. It would be easy for someone to get a general (and most likely bad) opinion of a kid like Namond, but when you actually talk to the kids and get to know them you see that they are quite unlike how they present themselves.
I'm no superstar but I do take pride on the fact that kids come and talk to me all the time; I don't think it's wrong at all to afraid to let the kids "like" you. Too many teachers say "I'm not here to be liked, I'm here to teach you". Well, thats a pile of ****. It may work for football or the military but it's pretty hard to teach a kid who hates you because you're a prick. Also, I have had maybe 10 discipline problems in 20 years and they usually resolve themselves without going to another level because I try to treat each kid with respect.
Sorry for the sermon, just thinking about lessons from Season Four


I think this is overlooked by so many. Sorry, but we aren't the gatekeepers of knowledge any more than school has a monopoly on learning. It's all a crock of **** from the past four generations who tell us what a classroom is supposed to look like and what is supposed to motivate kids. Had a good talk with a teacher the other day about how her students spend so much time on cell phones and facebook in her class that she's banned everything. In my head I was thinking "maybe if you weren't so boring and angry with them all the time they'd have a reason to listen to you". Don't get me wrong, the students should be way more respectful, but the way to get it isn't to simply tell them to respect you. You kinda have to earn it and by developing strong relationships, life in the classroom gets so much easier. If the teacher ***** up, is it so wrong to ask for forgiveness? Is it wrong for kids to see you smile?

Never seen The Wire (and have no idea what it's about but I'll look into it for sure).
 

CBrown85

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Originally Posted by Teger
this is a really interesting thread. does anyone have any experience teaching college level? I'm entering an MA/PHD program next year and will be teaching by my second semester, and I'm having some definite anxiety about the experience.

No experience teaching college level, but I've been around a lot of high-level seniors. Fire me a PM and I'll see if I can scrape a few web resources for you to use/think about (if you want).
 

KenRose

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hey man, as much as you might want to start with season 4, start with season one. I wish I had 5 unwatched seasons of The Wire left!
Originally Posted by CBrown85
I think this is overlooked by so many. Sorry, but we aren't the gatekeepers of knowledge any more than school has a monopoly on learning. It's all a crock of **** from the past four generations who tell us what a classroom is supposed to look like and what is supposed to motivate kids. Had a good talk with a teacher the other day about how her students spend so much time on cell phones and facebook in her class that she's banned everything. In my head I was thinking "maybe if you weren't so boring and angry with them all the time they'd have a reason to listen to you". Don't get me wrong, the students should be way more respectful, but the way to get it isn't to simply tell them to respect you. You kinda have to earn it and by developing strong relationships, life in the classroom gets so much easier. If the teacher ***** up, is it so wrong to ask for forgiveness? Is it wrong for kids to see you smile?

Never seen The Wire (and have no idea what it's about but I'll look into it for sure).
 

CBrown85

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Sorry for the spamming, just wanted to stir things up a bit here in the pedagogy realm: I suggest reading the entire article although here's a snippet. (and i think parallels can be drawn with physical activity) http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/nonreaders.htm
1. Quantify their reading assignments. Nothing contributes to a student’s interest in (and proficiency at) reading more than the opportunity to read books that he or she has chosen. But it’s easy to undermine the benefits of free reading. All you need to do is stipulate that students must read a certain number of pages, or for a certain number of minutes, each evening. When they’re told how much to read, they tend to just “turn the pages” and “read to an assigned page number and stop,” says Christopher Ward Ellsasser, a California high school teacher.[2] And when they’re told how long to read – a practice more common with teachers of younger students -- the results are not much better. As Julie King, a parent, reports, “Our children are now expected to read 20 minutes a night, and record such on their homework sheet. What parents are discovering (surprise) is that those kids who used to sit down and read for pleasure -- the kids who would get lost in a book and have to be told to put it down to eat/play/whatever -- are now setting the timer…and stopping when the timer dings. . . . Reading has become a chore, like brushing your teeth.” 2. Make them write reports. Jim DeLuca, a middle school teacher, summed it up: “The best way to make students hate reading is to make them prove to you that they have read. Some teachers use log sheets on which the students record their starting and finishing page for their reading time. Other teachers use book reports or other projects, which are all easily faked and require almost no reading at all. In many cases, such assignments make the students hate the book they have just read, no matter how they felt about it before the project.”[3] 3. Isolate them. I’ve been in the same book group for 25 years. We read mostly fiction, both classic and contemporary, at the rate of almost a book a month. I shudder to think how few novels I would have read over that period, and how much less pleasure (and insight) I would have derived from those I did manage to read, without the companionship of my fellow readers. Subscribers to this journal are probably familiar with literature circles and other ways of helping students to create a community of readers. You’d want to avoid such innovations – and have kids read (and write) mostly on their own -- if your goal were to cause them to lose interest in what they’re doing. 4. Focus on skills. Children grow to love reading when it’s about making meaning, when they’re confronted directly by provocative ideas, compelling characters, delicious prose. But that love may never bloom if all the good stuff is occluded by too much attention to the machinery – or, worse, the approved vocabulary for describing that machinery. Knowing the definition of dramatic irony or iambic pentameter has the same relationship to being literate that memorizing the atomic weight of nitrogen has to doing science. When I look back on my brief career teaching high school English, I think I would have been far more successful had I asked a lot fewer questions that have only one correct answer. I should have helped the kids to dive headfirst into the realm of metaphor rather than wasting their time on how a metaphor differs from a simile. “School teaches that literacy is about a set of skills, not a way to engage a part of the world,” as Eliot Washor and his colleagues recently wrote. “Consequently, many young people come to associate reading with schooling rather than with learning more about what interests them.”[4] 5. Offer them incentives. Scores of studies have confirmed that rewards tend to lead people to lose interest in whatever they had to do to snag them. This principle has been replicated with many different populations (across genders, ages, and nationalities) and with a variety of tasks as well as different kinds of inducements (money, A’s, food, and praise, to name four).[5] You may succeed in getting students to read a book by dangling a reward in front of them for doing so, but their interest in reading, per se, is likely to evaporate – or, in the case of kids who have little interest to begin with, is unlikely to take root -- because you’ve sent the message that reading is something one wouldn’t want to do. (Duh. If it was fun, why would they be bribing me to do it?) Elaborate commercial programs (think Accelerated Reader or Book It!) may be the most efficient way to teach kids that reading isn’t pleasurable in its own right, but ordinary grades will do just as well in a pinch. As far as I can tell, every single study that has examined grades and intrinsic motivation has found that the former has a negative effect on the latter.[6] 6. Prepare them for tests. Just as a teacher’s grade can be every bit as effective at killing motivation as imported incentive programs, so a teacher’s quiz can hold its own against your state’s standardized exam. It’s not the test itself that does the damage; it’s what comes before. Heidegger said that life is lived toward – informed by and in anticipation of – death (Sein zum Tode). By analogy, a classroom where learning is always pointed to a test (Lernen zum Examen?) is one where ideas, and the act of reading, are experienced as just so many means to an end. That, of course, is exactly the same effect that rewards create, so if your classroom is one that emphasizes tests and grades, the damage is effectively doubled. And if those tests and grades are mostly focused on memorizing facts and mastering mechanical skills, well, you’ve won the Triple Crown at creating a roomful of nonreaders. * 7. Restrict their choices. Teachers have less autonomy these days than ever before. The predominant version of school reform, with its emphasis on “accountability” and its use of very specific curriculum standards enforced by tests, proceeds from the premise that teachers need to be told what, and how, to teach. At the same time, this movement confuses excellence with uniformity (“All students in ninth grade will . . . “) and with mere difficulty (as if that which is more “rigorous” were necessarily better). It’s now reaching its apotheosis with an initiative to impose the same core standards on every public school classroom in the nation. This effort has been sponsored primarily by corporate executives, politicians, and test manufacturers, but, shamefully, certain education organizations, including NCTE, have failed to take a principled stand in opposition. Instead, they have eagerly accepted whatever limited role in the design of standards they’re permitted by the corporate sponsors, thereby giving the impression that this prescriptive, one-size-fits-all approach to schooling enjoys legitimacy and the support of educators. The bigger picture here, which transcends and predates national standards, features top-down control all the way along the education food chain, from legislators and state school officials to school boards to superintendents to principals to teachers. That means the pivotal question for teachers – a moral as well as a practical question – is whether they will treat students the way they, themselves, are being treated . . . or the way they wish they were being treated.
 

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