The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Appreciation Thread (Bespoke only)

fritzl · Sep 18, 2010

Originally Posted by ThinkDerm

is this scatpron?

gazman70k · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by cdmoore1855

Why are there holes in the back of the shoes ?

Tony Gaziano explains:

The pin holes at the back are for lasting reasons. If we don't secure the backs when we last the front of the shoes, they will slide down, giving a low back height.

The pins are normally nailed through the stitching line so that they are camouflaged, but in this case there is no stitching.

I am exploring a different way of doing it, so as to hide them.

He also noted that upon completion, the hole is sealed and concealed. How this is achieved, I don't know.

Gaz

cdmoore1855 · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by gazman70k

Tony Gaziano explains:

The pin holes at the back are for lasting reasons. If we don't secure the backs when we last the front of the shoes, they will slide down, giving a low back height.

The pins are normally nailed through the stitching line so that they are camouflaged, but in this case there is no stitching.

I am exploring a different way of doing it, so as to hide them.

He also noted that upon completion, the hole is sealed and concealed. How this is achieved, I don't know.

Gaz

Interesting, so I wonder how my seamless wholecuts were lasted. There is no evidence of holes in the back unless they are expertly concealed by shrinking the leather. I am guessing this must be right cos the only way to do the seamless show is by shrinking the heel

shoefan · Sep 20, 2010

It is also possible to leave some lining leather untrimmed above the top of the quarters and to put the nail through that -- normally, the lining is made a bit larger than the upper and then trimmed after the two are sewed together. Then, after the shoe is finished, you trim the lining leather.

DWFII · Sep 20, 2010

It is also possible, in my experience, to last a shoe without any tacks/pins in the upper and without leaving excess lining to tack into. The possible exception might be a loafer/slip-on shoe...in which case the excess lining technique is to be preferred, IMO.

That said, the pinning technique is an old one...used, I suspect, more often when the shoe is "dead lasted" rather than lasted "seats up."

In the latter approach, the frontpart of the shoe is lasted first with the heel of the last a centimeter or so offset from where it will eventually end up. Then the backpart of the shoe is "hoisted" into position. Doing it this way, there is enough tension along the topline that slippage is not a factor.

Fishball · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by shoefan

It is also possible to leave some lining leather untrimmed above the top of the quarters and to put the nail through that -- normally, the lining is made a bit larger than the upper and then trimmed after the two are sewed together. Then, after the shoe is finished, you trim the lining leather.

It is how I was taught.

luk-cha · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by shoefan

It is also possible to leave some lining leather untrimmed above the top of the quarters and to put the nail through that -- normally, the lining is made a bit larger than the upper and then trimmed after the two are sewed together. Then, after the shoe is finished, you trim the lining leather.

Originally Posted by DWFII

It is also possible, in my experience, to last a shoe without any tacks/pins in the upper and without leaving excess lining to tack into. The possible exception might be a loafer/slip-on shoe...in which case the excess lining technique is to be preferred, IMO.

That said, the pinning technique is an old one...used, I suspect, more often when the shoe is "dead lasted" rather than lasted "seats up."

In the latter approach, the frontpart of the shoe is lasted first with the heel of the last a centimeter or so offset from where it will eventually end up. Then the backpart of the shoe is "hoisted" into position. Doing it this way, there is enough tension along the topline that slippage is not a factor.

please dont forget that this shoe is seamless, normally i am sure both of you are right but when dealing with this kind of shoes where is it seamless i would think that it is slightly different to the norm

DWFII · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by luk-cha

please dont forget that this shoe is seamless, normally i am sure both of you are right but when dealing with this kind of shoes where is it seamless i would think that it is slightly different to the norm
I'm not so sure. I don't have any quarrel or problem with "pinning" the heel. There are several "schools" of thought and procedure relevant here and I'm not prepared to say one is better than the other. I, personally, would prefer not to make holes in a shoe that are not functional to the design and structure but, as I said, pinning has some tradition behind it. That said, the fact that the shoe is seamless shouldn't make any difference as to whether the patterns are right; whether the shoe is "hoisted" during lasting; or, ultimately, whether a pin would be needed. In other words, the seamlessness should be beside the point. I can see from the photos that the extra lining technique wouldn't be feasible in the case of this particular method of construction, however.

Fishball · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by DWFII

I can see from the photos that the extra lining technique wouldn't be feasible in the case of this particular method of construction, however.

Ah, I see. The lining and upper are "folded" together so that no seam will be shown, so there are no "extra lining" you can pinned, right, DW?

I think it is ok to not pinned it at all, it just make lasting little bit diffcult, but still do-able, at lease I have seen "shi-fu" do it.

BTW, here is my "new", "bespoke" last! Actually a duplicate of my old bespoke last:

Made on 17 Sept, 2010

Fishball · Sep 20, 2010

My first trial shoe for my beloved wife:

Will finished it with a bow, the style after Ferragamo

DWFII · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by gazman70k

Work in progress TEASER. The seamless single stitch whole cut.

Fishball, You've got it right...but pinning can be done in that extra lining margin or, as in the photo above, it can be done right through the counter/heel stiffener. It's this last technique that I personally would prefer to avoid if possible although as I say it has a well accepted/respected past. PS...that's a nice looking pump/court shoe. How high is the heel and how are you going to construct the heel? (Hope you'll post it on the CC)

Fishball · Sep 20, 2010

Originally Posted by DWFII

Fishball,

You've got it right...but pinning can be done in that extra lining margin or, as in the photo above, it can be done right through the counter/heel stiffener.

It's this last technique that I personally would prefer to avoid if possible although as I say it has a well accepted/respected past.

PS...that's a nice looking pump/court shoe. How high is the heel and how are you going to construct the heel? (Hope you'll post it on the CC)

DW,

~1". I am thinking of built it up by leather, or a premade heel block, any other suggestion?

bigbris1 · Sep 21, 2010

Originally Posted by gazman70k

Gaziano & Girling Tokyo Trunk Show Summer 2010

gaz, there was something eerily familiar as I scrolled thru the pics you posted, from the way the shoes were laid out, some of the designs, right down to the pic of Tony kneeling on the carpet trained on the customer's feet. Then it hit me! My visit with Chay Cooper.

For those looking to go custom Alfred Sargent offers what I think is a great product with excellent service to boot. And so this isn't for nothing, my dream realized:

gazman70k · Sep 22, 2010

Originally Posted by bigbris1

]

Noice! I like the colour combination.

kolecho · Sep 23, 2010

Originally Posted by bigbris1

Are these bespoke?

The Ultimate "HARDCORE" Shoe Appreciation Thread (Bespoke only)

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