The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[Benjamin Chee HH]



Wow, thats a real cool idea.


Both real good choices.

I hope to see some pictures of these watches in the near future.

Thank you! You most definitely will.

 

[bboysdontcryy]

B is right, my friend serviced his Patek (albeit one from the 20s) for wait for this, a staggering 3200 pounds. Oh, no complications.

To be fair, it included an overhaul of the mechanism and crocodile strap with gold buckle + the hefty VAT.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



i recalled the window dressing instantly.
enjoy it, its cool and unique and pretty.

Thanks!

And that was Wempe Vienna btw. Is the NYC one similar? You have a sharp eye.

Another part of the store display, this time with VC.

 

[in stitches]



Thanks!
And that was Wempe Vienna btw. Is the NYC one similar? You have a sharp eye.
Another part of the store display, this time with VC.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

thanks!

the window dressing is almost identical in color of display stands and how the watches are set up. im sure they have a template of sorts for how they want all their stores to be presented.

btw, i like the "B" stitching on your band.

lastly, that glued on thing was weak sauce, but at least it was just a doo-dad on the back of the case, not inside the watch. still, that is really not acceptable imo for a watch of that caliber.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]



I am pretty sure JLC does its enamelling in-house at Le Sentier - at least I am sure they do so for peinture sur émail (painted enamel) - which is led by the incomparable Miklos Merczel. Cannot speak for whether their cloisonne work is outsourced.

I think the other big house that led the way for in-house enamelling is VC, but I am not sure if that is a current thing with them.

For the benefit of everyone else here are some examples in lieu of a lengthy explanation as to why I rate the JLC enamelworks very highly. Remember this is all done in vitreous (as in glass) enamel - everything is done with the consideration that the end product has to survive being fired in a jeweler's kiln.

This is not widely known, but only gold cases can have vitreous enamel applied to them. Steel JLCs have epoxy resins applied to them and are then baked at a much lower temperatures. Which is nice in its own way, but not quite at the same level as vitreous enamel in terms of depth, beauty or difficulty. Thankfully not cost either though.

Your friendly neighbourhood JLC boutique or AD is likely to refer to either process as "enameling", and while a little misleading they are not technically wrong - one is vitreous enameling, the other cold enameling.

Sometimes they more accurately refer to the process for steel JLCs as "lacquering". This is cold enamel:

I wish you all the very best with your venture, and will keep an eye on your marque!
That's actually a pretty good (if crazy) idea, but I sadly don't print money...

Anyway, since I'm on a bit of a didactic roll, here are some examples of engraving on JLCs... I'll leave it up to you guys to decide who does the finer work.

JLC Le Sentier:

J.C. Randell:

Have you checked out the new 2013 JLC Master Perpetual Calendar? Would be interested in your thoughts about its "balance".

Oh you mean enamelling on the case, I was referring to enamelling on the dial, the vitreous sort as you mention. Not sure if the two are the same, but they do seem like related processes.

Vitreous enamelling required firing 20-30 times in an 800 degree C kiln. At every stage of firing the dial can be ruined by pure chance, and the enameller has to start from scratch. The high cost of enamel dials accounts for this wastage, as well as the skill and experience needed. In the Chinese workshop those artisans working on cloisonne and freehand enamel (painted freehand like a painting) must have at least 6 years experience. The junior ones start with mould-assisted dials.

I highly doubt VC uses in-house enamellers, just like their Richemont stable mate Van Cleef. As you know in-house in the watch industry is a term subject to much "flexibility".

The JLC enamels are very nice - I have scarcely seen enamel done on cases before. The cold enamels are not worthy of comparison in the same breath and are ersatz in my opinion, an attempt to deceive through semantics. Not specifically JLC, but the industry as a whole.

Here are some examples of cloisonne and freehand enamel done by the Chinese workshop led by Master Xiong.

Series of the Four Noble Flowers - the orchid, bamboo, chrysanthemum and plum blossom representing the four seasons

24k gold filigree done by hand, part of the 12 Chinese zodiac animals series

Butterfly enamel tourbillon piece unique sold for 200,000 USD. The entire movement and tourbillon carriage is of fired enamel and solid gold base.

Comparison of the double escapement movement I posted earlier with the Langematik. Some haute horlogerie editor visited the factory and this was one of his photos. Definitely still some way to go in the finishing department but it is a good start, not least to compare themselves with Lange. One must note this movement is not even available anymore from Lange.

Example of the porcelain dial. Skeleton watches are not to my taste but this shows what can be done. Not the movement is skeletoned with gold chatons, unprecedented to my knowledge.

Great Wall tourbillon, a symbol of two Chinese accomplishments. One of the watches I have ordered. The tourbillon is freesprung, has a 63 hour reserve due to the high quality in-house balance spring and is made of titanium.

 

[scotchman]

I had a quick question...as far as watches go the market has been flooded with many high quality knockoffs of the more popular brands. Cartier, Patek, Rolex (obviously), Tag Heuer, etc...what are your thoughts on buying a knockoff watch? I personally have no problem with someone wearing one, but could definitely see how many people would. Thoughts?

 

[Dino944]

Thank you Dino! I chose tan because of how it harmonises with the aged lume of the hands.

Pics of the animal whence it came

Again that color is the perfect pairing for that watch.

The problem with Patek isnt the availability of servicing, it is the cost of servicing. It starts at 4 figures and can easily go into the high 5 digits especially for vintage complications. Same with Vacheron. In theory yes they can handmake a part from scratch, but will the cost be ludicrous?

Yes, the cost will be very very costly if parts have to be made, although at least Patek, VC, AP and several other high end brands will do that for you. Some brands you are on your own once they run out of parts. Sure, there may be some great watch makers that can handle sourcing or making a part ...but thats not my point...its that PP, VC, and AP will do that for you and you are assured your watch is getting PP, VC, or AP parts.

Quote:

lastly, that glued on thing was weak sauce, but at least it was just a doo-dad on the back of the case, not inside the watch. still, that is really not acceptable imo for a watch of that caliber.

Yes, its not inside the watch, but its embarrassing on a brand with such a great reputation for quality. They should eliminate the glued on medalion and just engrave the 1000 Hour info on solid case back.

 

[in stitches]



I had a quick question...as far as watches go the market has been flooded with many high quality knockoffs of the more popular brands. Cartier, Patek, Rolex (obviously), Tag Heuer, etc...what are your thoughts on buying a knockoff watch? I personally have no problem with someone wearing one, but could definitely see how many people would. Thoughts?

I know there are varying opinions on this one, but a knock off watch would hold no interest to me. I would rather buy a decent cheap watch than a wanna be of something else. It's neither here nor there for me.

Yes, its not inside the watch, but its embarrassing on a brand with such a great reputation for quality.  They should eliminate the glued on medalion and just engrave the 1000 Hour info on solid case back. 

Agree 100%

 

[Newcomer]



I had a quick question...as far as watches go the market has been flooded with many high quality knockoffs of the more popular brands. Cartier, Patek, Rolex (obviously), Tag Heuer, etc...what are your thoughts on buying a knockoff watch? I personally have no problem with someone wearing one, but could definitely see how many people would. Thoughts?

I have no problem with homages, especially if they are not exact replicas with a different logo. But knockoffs? I think it is dishonest, and kind of absurd. I think it says a lot about the person! I think there is a large difference between person who buys a Parnis homage (well, more like a copy, but still) and a fake Panerai. Personally, I would not do either. But I would buy something from Magrette, which makes what could be called "Panerai inspired" watches.

People who buy fakes are buying them for others. I guess I just cannot see a legitimate reason, other than some sort of nouveau riche desire to fit in and show off a certain image.

 

[RogerP]

^^^ Agree completely.

 

[Kaplan]



The whole strap apart from the tabs are machine stitched. The edging is crude and uneven. Dont like cordovan, and it didnt fit properly as bespoke would.

Wow, that's disappointing. By 'bespoke', do you mean the strap was made to your measurements?

 

[Newcomer]



Wow, that's disappointing. By 'bespoke', do you mean the strap was made to your measurements?

I think he is talking about the Casa Fagliano strap.

 

[Kaplan]

Gotcha. Read it as 'didn't fit like bespoke should'.

 

[in stitches]



I have no problem with homages, especially if they are not exact replicas with a different logo. But knockoffs? I think it is dishonest, and kind of absurd. I think it says a lot about the person! I think there is a large difference between person who buys a Parnis homage (well, more like a copy, but still) and a fake Panerai. Personally, I would not do either. But I would buy something from Magrette, which makes what could be called "Panerai inspired" watches.

People who buy fakes are buying them for others. I guess I just cannot see a legitimate reason, other than some sort of nouveau riche desire to fit in and show off a certain image.

while i agree with your sentiment personally, i think one of the reasons people do it is because they like the look of a certain watch, so they get a fake for fun, because they dont love watches enough to really shell out. its kind of kitch, but some people like them. as i said before, i do not. id rather wear a casio from kmart.

 

[Newcomer]



while i agree with your sentiment personally, i think one of the reasons people do it is because they like the look of a certain watch, so they get a fake for fun, because they dont love watches enough to really shell out. its kind of kitch, but some people like them. as i said before, i do not. id rather wear a casio from kmart.

Oh, I definitely agree. Which is why I really have little problem with:

But I have a problem with:

And I guess I have more of a problem with fakes because it hurts the company. I really have no ethical qualms with really... very much in general. But fakes, in my most humble of opinions, soils the integrity and hurts the brand that is being faked. When you have fake rolex's around the market, it hurts the integrity of the brand, harms customers, etc.