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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    I think the Lange way is more purist and admirable/desirable for a high-end company, but the Patek way is more pragmatic. Personally I think using more ubiquitous movements makes servicing easier and thus cheaper, but Patek should then price themselves accordingly, which they are unlikely to given their vast brand equity. The cal 240 is easily trumped by, for example, the Pf 701 in the Tonda you saw. Finishing, materials, bridge design etc.

    Patek is well-known in the horological community for giving lower-tier finishing to their non-complicated watches. The 215 and 315 are clear examples of this - they do not compare to the historical 23-300 of the 50s. Same with Vacheron, to a lesser extent. Compare the current 4400 to any of their vintage calibres. The 4400 uses a simplified layout for easier manufacture.

    On Dornblueth, wouldnt servicing one with a Unitas calibre mean replacing parts with a standard finish? Thus negating the Dorn value proposition altogether. I considered the Quintus seriously as well but in the end was just not moved by its dial. And one has to truly fall in love with a watch imho.

    Roger Smith has great finishing, but again, the dial doesnt move me emotionally. Same with Dufour. I do like Romain Gauthier though, and De Bethune, but they are rather big watches.
     


  2. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    Thank you Dino! I chose tan because of how it harmonises with the aged lume of the hands.

    Pics of the animal whence it came

    [​IMG]
     


  3. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    The problem with Patek isnt the availability of servicing, it is the cost of servicing. It starts at 4 figures and can easily go into the high 5 digits especially for vintage complications. Same with Vacheron. In theory yes they can handmake a part from scratch, but will the cost be ludicrous?

    If they dont wish to service a watch they will simply quote an astronomical figure. And you cannot take the watch elsewhere for servicing. Even if you did go to the source, you would have to worry about them replacing the original parts, even when you specifically request they dont.

    Sometimes, the headache just isnt worth it and you realise they are just watches, time to move on. Its then that the worth of an ebauche is made clearer.
     


  4. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    Thank you! You most definitely will.
     


  5. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Distinguished Member

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    B is right, my friend serviced his Patek (albeit one from the 20s) for wait for this, a staggering 3200 pounds. Oh, no complications.

    To be fair, it included an overhaul of the mechanism and crocodile strap with gold buckle + the hefty VAT.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013


  6. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    Thanks!

    And that was Wempe Vienna btw. Is the NYC one similar? You have a sharp eye.

    Another part of the store display, this time with VC.

    [​IMG]
     


  7. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    thanks!

    the window dressing is almost identical in color of display stands and how the watches are set up. im sure they have a template of sorts for how they want all their stores to be presented.

    btw, i like the "B" stitching on your band.

    lastly, that glued on thing was weak sauce, but at least it was just a doo-dad on the back of the case, not inside the watch. still, that is really not acceptable imo for a watch of that caliber.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013


  8. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior Member

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    Oh you mean enamelling on the case, I was referring to enamelling on the dial, the vitreous sort as you mention. Not sure if the two are the same, but they do seem like related processes.

    Vitreous enamelling required firing 20-30 times in an 800 degree C kiln. At every stage of firing the dial can be ruined by pure chance, and the enameller has to start from scratch. The high cost of enamel dials accounts for this wastage, as well as the skill and experience needed. In the Chinese workshop those artisans working on cloisonne and freehand enamel (painted freehand like a painting) must have at least 6 years experience. The junior ones start with mould-assisted dials.

    I highly doubt VC uses in-house enamellers, just like their Richemont stable mate Van Cleef. As you know in-house in the watch industry is a term subject to much "flexibility".

    The JLC enamels are very nice - I have scarcely seen enamel done on cases before. The cold enamels are not worthy of comparison in the same breath and are ersatz in my opinion, an attempt to deceive through semantics. Not specifically JLC, but the industry as a whole.

    Here are some examples of cloisonne and freehand enamel done by the Chinese workshop led by Master Xiong.

    Series of the Four Noble Flowers - the orchid, bamboo, chrysanthemum and plum blossom representing the four seasons
    [​IMG]

    24k gold filigree done by hand, part of the 12 Chinese zodiac animals series
    [​IMG]

    Butterfly enamel tourbillon piece unique sold for 200,000 USD. The entire movement and tourbillon carriage is of fired enamel and solid gold base.
    [​IMG]

    Comparison of the double escapement movement I posted earlier with the Langematik. Some haute horlogerie editor visited the factory and this was one of his photos. Definitely still some way to go in the finishing department but it is a good start, not least to compare themselves with Lange. One must note this movement is not even available anymore from Lange.
    [​IMG]

    Example of the porcelain dial. Skeleton watches are not to my taste but this shows what can be done. Not the movement is skeletoned with gold chatons, unprecedented to my knowledge.
    [​IMG]

    Great Wall tourbillon, a symbol of two Chinese accomplishments. One of the watches I have ordered. The tourbillon is freesprung, has a 63 hour reserve due to the high quality in-house balance spring and is made of titanium.
    [​IMG]
     


  9. scotchman

    scotchman Well-Known Member

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    I had a quick question...as far as watches go the market has been flooded with many high quality knockoffs of the more popular brands. Cartier, Patek, Rolex (obviously), Tag Heuer, etc...what are your thoughts on buying a knockoff watch? I personally have no problem with someone wearing one, but could definitely see how many people would. Thoughts?
     


  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Distinguished Member

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    Again that color is the perfect pairing for that watch.
    Yes, the cost will be very very costly if parts have to be made, although at least Patek, VC, AP and several other high end brands will do that for you. Some brands you are on your own once they run out of parts. Sure, there may be some great watch makers that can handle sourcing or making a part ...but thats not my point...its that PP, VC, and AP will do that for you and you are assured your watch is getting PP, VC, or AP parts.
    [​IMG]
    Quote:
    Yes, its not inside the watch, but its embarrassing on a brand with such a great reputation for quality. They should eliminate the glued on medalion and just engrave the 1000 Hour info on solid case back.
     


  11. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    I know there are varying opinions on this one, but a knock off watch would hold no interest to me. I would rather buy a decent cheap watch than a wanna be of something else. It's neither here nor there for me.



    Agree 100%
     


  12. Newcomer

    Newcomer Distinguished Member

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    I have no problem with homages, especially if they are not exact replicas with a different logo. But knockoffs? I think it is dishonest, and kind of absurd. I think it says a lot about the person! I think there is a large difference between person who buys a Parnis homage (well, more like a copy, but still) and a fake Panerai. Personally, I would not do either. But I would buy something from Magrette, which makes what could be called "Panerai inspired" watches.

    People who buy fakes are buying them for others. I guess I just cannot see a legitimate reason, other than some sort of nouveau riche desire to fit in and show off a certain image.
     


  13. RogerP

    RogerP Distinguished Member

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    ^^^ Agree completely.
     


  14. Kaplan

    Kaplan Distinguished Member

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    Wow, that's disappointing. By 'bespoke', do you mean the strap was made to your measurements?
     


  15. Newcomer

    Newcomer Distinguished Member

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    I think he is talking about the Casa Fagliano strap.
     


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