The StyleForum Working Hierarchical Suit Quality List (SFWHSQL!)

[sftiger]



For the newer members out there, I would be careful with that brands/lines we throw under blanket statements.  In this case, I disagree with RLBL being added to this statement.  In no way is it a "crap RTW fused" suit.  Black Label suits are made by Caruso (a maker pointed out as "high-end"), are in fact fully canvassed, have hand detailing and use Holland and Sherry cloth.  If the slim fit works for you body type, RLBL can be one heck of a deal. 

I think one problem is that while it's generally accepted that RLBL refers to RL Black Label, it could just as easily refer to RL Blue Label, so it's possible that's what he meant by RLBL.

 

[sftiger]

Two issues - first of all, Boggi is literally (not in the figurative sense that most people use this word, but "literally" literally) impossible to find in the U.S. as far as I'm aware. They don't have any stores in the Americas (North or South) whatsoever. I have no problem buying suits online, but only if I've gotten to try them on first in person at a retail location. And I imagine the vast majority of people on SF are US-based, meaning that brands that don't have as much of a presence in the US don't get as much attention (super high-end Savile Row/Italian stuff aside).

Second - I agree with the above posters. I've bought many suits on B&S, eBay, etc., but the problem with brands like Zegna, Canali, Zileri, etc. is that they have so many different lines that aren't as clear cut as BB (where you can generally say that GF or BBBF is a definite marker of quality, although even these are debateable) or RL (where Black Label or RLPL are definite markers of quality). And eBay return policies tend to be hit or miss. Mainline contemporary Zegna stuff that's carried at Barney's, Bergdorf's, etc. are beautiful but that stuff doesn't really go on B&S or eBay for below $1K in staple colors, nor is it that easy to tell if a Zegna on eBay is mainline from the last 5 years or 25 years old and dated. That's why I tend to avoid those brands online unless it's plainly obvious that they are a more modern cut of the suit.

Also, Canali and Corneliani tend to have stronger shoulders on their jackets than I like, so I avoid them online. Same with Brioni - I've never tried on a Brioni that fit me well (except once in a Brioni boutique in Hong Kong) but it's always so tempting to snag them on eBay...

 

[LeSacre]

I think one problem is that while it's generally accepted that RLBL refers to RL Black Label, it could just as easily refer to RL Blue Label, so it's possible that's what he meant by RLBL.

True, true. I more commonly see PRL used to refer to Polo Ralph Lauren, since Blue Label is technically the women's line.

However, even then one must be careful as there is the cheap PRL and the Italian made PRL (caruso, corneliani, cantarelli).

 

[MZhammer]

I wonder if there could be a second list by price range. I almost think that'd be more helpful for some folks as us that are new to the suit world really have no idea what a reasonable price is for most of the things on the list.

A reasonable price is really whatever you're willing to pay. The idea of this list is to rank quality and you'll have a ton of variance within prices. To get a good idea of what a decent deal is, go to eBay and look for all the completed listings of NWT items being sold for that brand. usually that's pretty indicative of what a "fair" price is.

For example, a Brunello Cucinelli suit goes for $3,600 MSRP and is in the same category as Canali which sells for $1,800 and Samuelsohn which is selling for $1,095. Are there probably differences in quality? Slightly, but I own one of each and I can say for certainty that I don't see that much difference besides the BC fabric is nicer.

Giving a range of what to pay for "good" or "great" suits is hard. I bought my Canali on ultra clearance for $350 (sport coat), I got my Sammy for about $400 and the BC was still around $1,400 on clearance. Clearly I got the best deal with the first two but does that mean I overpaid for the BC? Even though it was still more than 50% off.

It's hard to say that you should pay X for good quality and Y for great when there are so many different factors (style, cloth, brand name) that affect the price. Quality is a little easier to isolate and you can make your purchasing decisions off of that.

 

[sftiger]



True, true.  I more commonly see PRL used to refer to Polo Ralph Lauren, since Blue Label is technically the women's line. 

However, even then one must be careful as there is the cheap PRL and the Italian made PRL (caruso, corneliani, cantarelli). 

of course RL written on a blue label != Ralph Lauren Blue Label. See why this stuff is so confusing??

 

[LeSacre]

of course RL written on a blue label != Ralph Lauren Blue Label. See why this stuff is so confusing??

Without a doubt. When I first joined, a few short months ago, I knew nothing about menswear. All the brands, makers, terminology etc. were overwhelming. However, thanks to this site, I have converted from a JAB suit wearer (

) to a well dressed, yet still learning, SFer.

 

[MZhammer]

As a special thanks to everyone, I've compiled this list in another location as well. Hopefully more than SF will be able to benefit from our collective wisdom.
http://noblecustom.com/style/probably-arbitrary-hierarchy-suits/

Excellent [*****]
- Oxxford (Highest Quality)
- Brioni
- Cesare Attolini Napoli
- Caraceni
- Kiton
- Luciano Barbera Sartoriale
- Luigi Borrelli
- Sartoria Castangia
- St Andrew / Santandrea
- La Vera Sartoria Napoletana
- Zegna Couture/Tom Ford

Very Good[****] (IE: Few suits match the quality of the ones in this category.)

- Battistoni
- D'Avenza
- Isaia
- Sartoria Partenopea
- Oxxford (1220)
- Belvest mainline
- Borrelli Luxury Vintage
- Canali Milano
- Corneliani Linea Sartoria
- Pal Zileri Sartoriale (I think there is another line higher than Sartoriale: The custom made one--IIRC "Abito Privato"--has excellent quality)
- Ravazzolo
- Sartoria Attolini Napoli
- Raffaelle Caruso: Sartoria Parma
- RLPL
- Sartorio
- Stile Latino



Good[***] (IE: Quality is superior to most suits.)

- Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
- Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
- Brunello Cucinelli (very nice fabrics)
- Canali mainline
- Canali Exclusive (higher end fabrics)
- Cantarelli mainline
- Corneliani mainline
- Dunhill
- Ermenegildo Zegna
- Faconnable Tailleur
- Martin Greenfield for Gilt, BoO, FSC, & O&S (fully canvassed)
- Hickey Freeman Mainline
- Kei by Canali (full canvas, but very soft)
- Pal Zileri mainline
- Paul Smith mainline (fully canvassed)
- Paul Stuart
- Raffaelle Caruso mainline
- RLBL
- Samuelsohn
- J. Press Pressidential (full canvas)
- Robert Talbott (Made in USA by Martin Greenfield)


Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)


- Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)
- Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
- Burberry Prorsum
- Cantarelli Tailor
- Charles Tyrwhitt
- CC Corneliani (half canvassed)
- Coppley (half canvassed)
- Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
- Gucci
- H. Freemann
- Hackett (half canvassed)
- Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
- Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
- J. Press Presstige (half canvassed)
- Lardini (half canvassed)
- L.B.M. 1911
- Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
- Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
- Piombo
- Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)
- Suit Supply (half canvassed)
- Valentino (half canvassed)
- Prada (half canvassed)
- Peter Millar


Mediocre to Poor[*] (Suits that are mediocre to poor.)

- J Crew Ludlow (fused)
- Armani Exchange
- Calvin Klein Collection (now fused)
- Dolce & Gabbana
- J. Press mainline (fused; decent fabrics)
- H&M
- Hickey (now fused and made in China)
- Hugo Boss (fused)
- Joseph Abboud
- Pal Zileri Lab
- Tonello
- Versace Collection
- Z Zegna
- Zara
- Armani Collezioni (fused)
- Corneliani Trend (fused)

 

[Patek]

My addition of Piattelli for Barneys NY was dropped from the bottom of the list. Buyers need to be warned.

 

[MZhammer]

My addition of Piattelli for Barneys NY was dropped from the bottom of the list. Buyers need to be warned.

My understanding is that they're only sold at the warehouse, not the actual store. Correct?

 

[Goodman]

My understanding is that they're only sold at the warehouse, not the actual store. Correct?

That is correct. Not to be confused with the sold in store Barney's private lablel suits made by Caruso which are fully canvassed.

 

[dirnelli]

Sorry, by RLBL I meant Blue Label (which is Polo) so I should have wrote PRL. Black Label is indeed fine.

Boggi has a Caruso fully canvassed offering at a bargain price. They also do many different qualities (Flannel Bay, Lardini, Tagliatore, and others).

I have scored amazing deals online personally. Here are my tips about buying online:

http://dirnelli.tumblr.com/post/35910670235/tip-of-the-day-how-to-find-buy-great-suits-thrifted

 

[nyarkies]



I think I will as you're not the first person to ask!

How about a longer length on the jacket? I feel the back was a bit short on a regular length jacket that I need to opt for a long instead.

 

[eHaberdasher]



How about a longer length on the jacket? I feel the back was a bit short on a regular length jacket that I need to opt for a long instead.

Probably not... we can discuss off-line will send PM.

 

[XFactor]

As a special thanks to everyone, I've compiled this list in another location as well. Hopefully more than SF will be able to benefit from our collective wisdom.
http://noblecustom.com/style/probably-arbitrary-hierarchy-suits/

Satisfactory [**] (IE: The "average" brands. Quality is acceptable.)

- Belvest Silver Label (half canvassed line)
- Brooks Brothers 1818 (half canvassed)
- Burberry Prorsum
- Cantarelli Tailor
- Charles Tyrwhitt
- CC Corneliani (half canvassed)
- Coppley (half canvassed)
- Etro (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Boglioli (if you can find the half canvas ones; some fused)
- Giorgio Armani (Black Label)[/U] (alot of their pieces are fused)
- Gucci
- H. Freemann
- Hackett (half canvassed)
- Hugo Boss Selection[/U] half canvassed and some premium fabrics
- Hickey Freeman LTD (half canvassed)
- J. Press Presstige (half canvassed)
- Lardini (half canvassed)
- L.B.M. 1911

- Marks and Spencer (any of their "Pure Wool" collection)
- Paul Smith London (half canvassed)
- Piombo
- Polo Ralph Lauren (half canvassed, excellent fabric)
- Suit Supply (half canvassed)
- Valentino (half canvassed)
- Prada (half canvassed)
- Peter Millar

Based on this list I pulled the trigger on 70% off sale at M&S.

Please share your thoughts/ comments? It was 100 GBP for entire suit. Pure Wool collection suit for less than 150 USD. I thought it was a good deal for the price. (All my roaming around on the web and in person did not show me an all wool suit for such a price).

And also one suit jacket as the pants were gone. (Pics & links below). I did check out their fit at a local M&S store in Asia. Not bad.

Once I have a better idea of how they fit and work well for me and I learn more about SUIT fitting I am thinking Minnis Fresco based suit after some cash flow starts.

If there's something super wrong with this buy, do let me know and I can cancel or return them.

http://www.marksandspencer.com/Savi...r_1_2&nodeId=3144227031&sr=1-2&qid=1381609687

http://www.marksandspencer.com/Sart...et/dp/B004G7U3LY?_encoding=UTF8&mnSBrand=core

 

[clee1982]

Why is PRL crap? It's half canvassed, with nice fabrics, I especially like Polo I, Polo II and the Bleecker model. I also never paid more than 500 for them.