The perfect tuxedo except for one thing...

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by shnikies, Dec 3, 2012.

Tags:
  1. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    

    Well, when we are talking about the origins of the tuxedo, we are talking about over 100 years. IMO, a single vent on a tux is the worst of all worlds, though if you like that classic Ivy look, then I suppose it fits.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013


  2. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    

    Of course, black tie was derived from white tie and as has been pointed out (either here or another thread) a tailcoat uses a single vented design.
     


  3. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    

    Regardless, it's traditionally wrong on a tuxedo. Single vents evolved from sporting wear--they help the jacket fit well on horseback. They have no place on a tuxedo, even though they are (unfortunately, IMO) fairly common.

    On another note, I was helping my brother shop for a tuxedo recently, and I'd say a good 60% of the offerings out there are notch lapel, with the rest split between peak and shawl collar. Utter abominations; why anyone would choose a notch lapel on a tux is beyond me, but apparently they do, in overwhelming quantities.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013


  4. comrade

    comrade Senior member

    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    323
    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Menlo Park, CA


  5. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    We're not discussing what is and is not traditional in white tie, which is a completely different animal. We are discussing what is traditional in black tie--and that is no vent, or occasionally double vented. Single vents are by no means traditional or proper.

    "Tortured" logic or not, there is a long tradition to black tie, and that tradition is no or double vents.

    From BlackTieGuide:

     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013


  6. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Likes Received:
    575
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    

    All this blather about the derivation of certain coats is so tiresome. Do not feel compelled to heed the "no vent, peak lapel" mantra that has become SF code.

    Clothing evolves. What is the logic of picking 1940 or 1890 as the time at which things were "correct"?

    It's like the "American Dad" joke about the amish... "1880 is the perfect amount of technology, we'll stop right here."
     


  7. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,366
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    For me it's not so much about the traditional rules per se, but rather details that differentiate a dinner jacket from a normal lounge suit jacket. If you get notch lapels, vents, flaps, etc...you move closer and closer to simply having a black suit jacket with silk facings. I like a tuxedo to be its own distinct garment.

    It's easier for manufacturers to make a tux that's just their normal suit jacket pattern but with facings, so many of them tend to push that on an unwitting public. But if you have the ability to choose, you don't have to follow the lemmings off the cliff.
     


  8. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    

    I mostly agree with this. The history of a garment can be useful in some contexts, but is usually not terribly relevant. Especially when it comes to black tie, where there is such a defined "traditional way". It really doesn't matter what the history was--it is how it is. My point in bringing up the history of the tux is that it has remained relatively unchanged for a very long time--longer than most other forms of dress--and thus that there is a more strongly defined norm than is the case for more casual clothes.

    Certainly there are plenty of ways to get "creative" with black tie. Though 99.9% of them end in disaster, and it usually is not appropriate anyways. Unless you are Vox and regularly throw or attend black-tie events at private residences, you'd almost certainly be better off sticking with the classics.

    A center vent is not going to be the end of the world assuming that the rest of the tux looks good. But let's not pretend that it is traditional, as it definitively is not.
     


  9. gentleman94

    gentleman94 Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    I would not buy a tuxedo with a vents because i couldn't feel good in tuxedo which is not correct.
     


  10. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,366
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    A notch lapel is more traditional than you might think. They've always been around. I still don't think they look very good, but there it is.
     


  11. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Likes Received:
    575
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Valid point, there are criteria that make a suit a tuxedo. I'd pick 1) the lapel shinies; 2) the leg stripe shinies; 3) the covered buttons; 4) the vest/cumberbund; 5) shiny or well polished shoes, pumps or oxford; 6) bow tie; 7) black suit white shirt; 8) Frunch cuffs, cuff links, shirt button thingies

    Some people here would throw peak lapels and ventlessness onto that list, but I think the above is more than enough to make it a tuxedo.
     


  12. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    

    I would agree, with three exceptions:

    1. Midnight is just as correct as black for the suit.

    2. Covered buttons aren't required; while they are far more common it isn't exactly a rule or anything.

    3. While the lapel and trouser stripe must be silk, they don't need to be shiny. Grosgrain is just as acceptable as satin and it has a much more matte finish.
     


  13. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Likes Received:
    575
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    I was using "shiny" to describe the group of different materials, but granted they are not necessarily shiny.
     


  14. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,366
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    

    When you see somebody wearing a single-vented, notch-lapeled tux, how often are they wearing patent shoes, a proper evening vest or cummerbund, and a proper evening shirt with studs? Half the time they'll even be wearing a long tie.
     


  15. TimelesStyle

    TimelesStyle Senior member

    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    87
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    

    Fair enough. Almost didn't put that in my list since even grosgrain can appear shiny, but yea, I agree.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by